Any plans for splitting solo / duo queue and team queues (3, 4, 5)

(titan) #1

Obviously not enough players for the competitive match making system to work properly how it is currently but splitting the queues i feel would solve a lot of the issues. Even if some top tier colbalt queues up and is the only colbalt currently searching they can be pitted against several golds to balance the scales.

Would be a lot better than the current disaster of mm, so many players quitting cause of 5 man stack stompages. Feel like this needs to be implemented asap, can’t underestimate the power of proper match making for sustaining a health player base (cs:go!)

(INF3RN0) #2

I’d like solo/duo and pre-mades of 3-5 to be separate, but overlap could occur if ELOs were balanced. It would just need to be enforced for a small pop.

(Szakalot) #3

well; premades of 3-4-5 still need 2-1-0 players extra, so that won’t work; imo just give the option for soloqueue/maybe two, and an ‘everything goes’ mode

edit: SD probably doesn’t want to split the community, but imo soloqueue unranked mode could be a perfect training ground for people to get into comp. If matchmaking works properly and cheaters are out, this could very well be the best gameplay mode for a random player; esp. since game plays completely differently at 5v5, and when everybody gives a damn

(BioSnark) #4

overlapping could occur after a set time of failed matching for the solo queuers.

(Szakalot) #5

alright; but imo if you soloqueue you should be able to decide that in no case do you want to go up against premades.

(Mustang) #6

This is the main problem, and it’s not an easy one to solve.

There will always be the people that only want to solo-queue, but if all solo players solo-queue then teams of 4 will never get a match.

Now personally I’d “solve” it by having teams of 6 rather than 5, adjusting maps accordingly, and having the two separate pools described above, but I think that train left long ago.

(Szakalot) #7

to be honest, once we get private matches them premades of 5 should find other premades of 5 offline, and not stack ranked. leave ranked to the majority of the playerbase, and keep proper scrims outside of it; just like cs.

dont see any other way its gonna work and still be interesting for non-clan people

(Mustang) #8

Well for starters I think the matchmaking could be a little bit more intelligent, for example a 5-man can never be matched against another team that consists of more than two parties, so it would allow 5, 4-1 or 3-2, but not 3-1-1, 2-2-1, 2-1-1-1 or 1-1-1-1-1.

It could also apply some sort of party count skill multiplier, so a team consisting of one party (i.e. 5) gets a multiplier of 1, a team of two (i.e. 4-1 or 3-2) gets a multiplier of 0.9, a team of three (i.e. 3-1-1 or 2-2-1) gets a multiplier of 0.8, etc.

And of course slow down or cap the rate of skill gap window growth over time.

(montheponies) #9

Funadamentally I think ranked match making is trying to do two very different jobs, as Szakalot says private matches should be the place for scrims to take place.

I get that you could skew the rating for parties and that might help balance, but for me ranked MM is all about folk that aren’t in a fixed team or clan having the ability to enjoy a competitive version of the game, for that reason I’d restrict to 2 people per party.

I’d also throw in FF ON as standard, just to completely differentiate it from pub.

(Smooth) #10

I’m more thinking of giving 5-player groups a much smaller skill-window for them to be matched in.

Since the team-balancer can’t do anything, generally 5-player groups need to be matched with players of almost equal skill.

It would make queuing longer for them but wouldn’t split them out too much. They could still be matches against smaller groups or solo’s, just without the massive skill difference that’s currently allowed.

If there was a 5-player only queue with the same skill searching as now, they’d still be able to be matched against much lower-skilled 5-player groups, resulting in the same stomping.

(titan) #11

Thanks for the reply
The skill-window would have to be really strict to stop the current issues, personally I’d only feel comfortable solo queuing if I was guaranteed to get 4 team mates in the same skill bracket, anything less than this and nothing will really change. Won’t be safe to queue alone and get 4 gold team mates vs 5 cobalts.
Also makes you worry about queue times which are already quite long, if a cobalt searches alone would they even be able to find 9 other cobalts? Although an improved match making system would probably bring in more players to competitive so the problem might solve it self?
Tough issue anyway

(Beermachine) #12

The average premade of a group of friends who play casually just wanting to play together isn’t really a problem, it’s a premade of 5 high skill highly organised players giving the matchmaker all kinds of headaches and driving away players with stomps, spawn camps etc.

Obviously solo queue gives the MM the most options to create balanced games, as even with say 2 high ELO players in a duo the MM then needs to find 2 more for the other side, rather than just splitting the 2 to 1 each side, or assigns lower ELO players to the 2 to make the average ELO’s on both sides equal (which causes it’s own complications and frustrations to the system).

Creating decent MM algorithms is very difficult, especially where premades with non trackable skills like good coordination via TS etc are matched with a group thrown together (whose individual skill then need to be higher to bridge the gap in lack of coordination).

(shibbyuk) #13

Agree, it would have to be very strict but I think anything is better than the current situation, in which massively unbalanced games that you can’t leave seem to be the norm.

You could offer the party the option to split their team once they’ve been waiting for X minutes? If they refuse, at least they know why they’re still waiting…

(spookify) #14

[QUOTE=Smooth;537064]I’m more thinking of giving 5-player groups a much smaller skill-window for them to be matched in.

Since the team-balancer can’t do anything, generally 5-player groups need to be matched with players of almost equal skill.

It would make queuing longer for them but wouldn’t split them out too much. They could still be matches against smaller groups or solo’s, just without the massive skill difference that’s currently allowed.

If there was a 5-player only queue with the same skill searching as now, they’d still be able to be matched against much lower-skilled 5-player groups, resulting in the same stomping.[/QUOTE]

What if there is some type of multiplyer both possitive and negative for credits and elo for solo - 5 mans?

Example:
I solo que and get a 5man. ELO = (1500 vs 2000)
I loss however i soloed so (1500/2000) / 50% for solo que to reduce elo loss. Elo loss is super low already but solo que should be lower yet.

If i beat a 5 man the bonus should be just as great. They are a team or friends maybe in a teamspeak.

(Szakalot) #15

[QUOTE=spookify;537140]What if there is some type of multiplyer both possitive and negative for credits and elo for solo - 5 mans?

Example:
I solo que and get a 5man. ELO = (1500 vs 2000)
I loss however i soloed so (1500/2000) / 50% for solo que to reduce elo loss. Elo loss is super low already but solo que should be lower yet.

If i beat a 5 man the bonus should be just as great. They are a team or friends maybe in a teamspeak.[/QUOTE]

this is a secondary problem. if you got stomped; sure maybe you shouldn’t be punished in the first place.

What needs to be addressed is how often one side gets stomped.

(spookify) #16

[QUOTE=Szakalot;537141]this is a secondary problem. if you got stomped; sure maybe you shouldn’t be punished in the first place.

What needs to be addressed is how often one side gets stomped.[/QUOTE]

If the team ELO difference is greater then “X” place the higher team on attackers…

If the team ELO difference is greater then “X” ELO W/L is 50% of total available ELO. Pretty sure this is what and how the ELO system works so this is already in the game in some form. However placing the higher ELO team on Attackers first is not.

In general I wish people could see my SPM and see I really dont play that much, but my SPM is very high.