Any love for some bots?

(mortis) #21

Bots are fine for a singleplayer mode. I’m not that keen on them in multiplayer play, they seem to discourage other from joining, rather than encouraging them. Just my $.02.

(tangoliber) #22

[QUOTE=tokamak;413108]when available purely offline then they provide an incentive not to go online.
[/QUOTE]

In my experience, offline bots don’t hurt the online communities. Games that comes to mind (and some of these are mods): Doom, Quake games, Counter Strike, Tribes 2, Killzone 2/3. I feel like they hurt in UT3 and Brink because the communities themselves were already struggling…so people resign themselves to just playing bots instead of bothering to look for a game online.
I think they are great for offline or unranked games. The only problem is when they get mixed into standard online play.

Also, I don’t know if Splash Damage still employs the guy who made the W:ET Bots mod…but he designs some of the most impressive bots I’ve seen…so I personally think it would be a shame if his talents weren’t used.

(tokamak) #23

Because SD wants the people playing against bots be online and play against their customers.

(SinDonor) #24

But then you run the risk of certain people not playing the game and buying stuff because they aren’t good versus people and don’t have fun getting pwned by the regulars. Offering an offline or private server mode that they can play in with themselves or with friends will create another revenue stream from customers who won’t stick around long enough in multiplayer competitive only matches. If they are getting pwned in the only mode available, why would they want to drop money on that game? Especially since Locki has already stated there will be no pay to win stuff.

I am not sure of SD’s pay model yet, but if you can secure a group of customers who have more fun in the bot modes, then there is some extra revenue to acquire. If you can sell the bot mode as a separate thing, or even give it away for free, those happy customers may dish out money for the pay stuff like character customization and etc.

(rookie1) #25

[QUOTE=SinDonor;413151]But then you run the risk of certain people not playing the game and buying stuff because they aren’t good versus people and don’t have fun getting pwned by the regulars. Offering an offline or private server mode that they can play in with themselves or with friends will create another revenue stream from customers who won’t stick around long enough in multiplayer competitive only matches. If they are getting pwned in the only mode available, why would they want to drop money on that game? Especially since Locki has already stated there will be no pay to win stuff.

I am not sure of SD’s pay model yet, but if you can secure a group of customers who have more fun in the bot modes, then there is some extra revenue to acquire. If you can sell the bot mode as a separate thing, or even give it away for free, those happy customers may dish out money for the pay stuff like character customization and etc.[/QUOTE]
I agreed^^

(tokamak) #26

There will always be better and worse players no matter what. However, when you’re letting the worse players hide offline then you’re cutting away the lower half of the playerbase, this automatically raises the skill of the average player online and makes the multiplayer even more daunting.

Then there’s there’s the stunted learning that happens offline. The kind of player can’t stand being constantly beaten won’t be playing against bots worthy of his skills, he’ll prefer an easy fragging session and be the king of his private matches.

The idea that bots will be used to improve one’s skill is just utterly fallacious, the only people that are willing to do that are the same people that wouldn’t mind improving their skill online either.

(SockDog) #27

Tok seems to have a very narrow perspective on what Bots can offer a game. I can’t help but disagree strongly with his opinion that the inclusion of bots would adversely impact DB. There are many situations where bot technology within the game could be put to good and profitable use.

edit

Tok you seem to think you can cattle drive players into playing. That people who aren’t comfortable with being beaten will play if given no other option. That people will play OBJ despite not liking it IF there are no other modes to play. The reality is these people just go somewhere else unless you can (and want) to offer them something they are interested in.

Besides this point. That is just one use for bots.

(tokamak) #28

Like the few examples you’re about to list:

(SinDonor) #29

[QUOTE=tokamak;413155]There will always be better and worse players no matter what. However, when you’re letting the worse players hide offline then you’re cutting away the lower half of the playerbase, this automatically raises the skill of the average player online and makes the multiplayer even more daunting.

Then there’s there’s the stunted learning that happens offline. The kind of player can’t stand being constantly beaten won’t be playing against bots worthy of his skills, he’ll prefer an easy fragging session and be the king of his private matches.

The idea that bots will be used to improve one’s skill is just utterly fallacious, the only people that are willing to do that are the same people that wouldn’t mind improving their skill online either.[/QUOTE]

This may be true, but if those types of players are gonna quit anyways because they aren’t having fun in the regular matches, then bottom line is that SD is not going to get their money. The little damage a bot mode would cause to the total competitive population of a good F2P game maybe be less than the damage to the revenue stream by offering a mode for less-skilled players to enjoy.

If I can tell my friends who are casual FPSers that DB has fun horde and co-op private modes vs bots, that might get more people to try out the game. People new to FPS or F2P gaming might be more comfortable “test driving” the game in a stress free environment with their friends vs some bots.

If they have a lot of fun, then they can up the challenge by playing against humans. If they do well, great. If they suck and didn’t have fun, then they can go back to their bot matches and other modes. Whatever keeps the customer happy and their wallets open.

(DarkangelUK) #30

Just a quick butt in on this one. A good matchmaking system should be stopping this from happening. Sure it can’t be guaranteed, but players should be playing with others that around their own skill level if all goes well, so that shouldn’t be used as an excuse for bots IMO.

(SinDonor) #31

I understand his point. He doesn’t want the bot friendly stuff to make a huge dent in the competitive multiplayer population. But if the game is great then he won’t have to worry. Gears of War had equally great multiplayer vs and bot matches. All modes were full almost all the time. I could make a VS AI match with my friends, or join a match publicly for any mode and always find people to play with. Multiplayer vs, horde mode, co-op campaign, etc etc etc.

As long as DB is good, this wont be an issue. If DB is so-so, then its few fans might resent the other modes instead of the game forcing newbs to be pwned for a few matches and then quit.

(SinDonor) #32

Can you name me a game with a good matchmaking system? I’ve been playing Halo and CoD for a while and they supposedly have the best matchmaking system. Yet, every game, I run into a handful of players who totally dominate every match and don’t belong there. It’s not fun when almost every match there’s a guy or two who consistently goes 25-4. Maybe he’s in there because his friend who invited him sucks or they’re in a party together. Point being, I don’t trust matchmaking systems.

(SockDog) #33

I need to tell you how to tie your shoelaces too?

Clan training/tactics and Learning exploring maps
Single Player/Co-Op modes including future mods
Player training (headshots, movement)
Filling slots late at night or where connectivity/lag limits players
Legacy (would be nice to spawn some RTCW bots for a quick go once in a while)

(DarkangelUK) #34

Pretty sure I said it can’t be guaranteed, but Quake Live does a decent job and you can tell there’s a stark difference between tiers. I get a very good run for my money in tier 4, on occasion I’ll play drunk on a sat night and end up dropping to tier 2 cos I’ve done crap. When I play on tier 3 it’s like night and day, I dominate for about 3 games and I’m instantly back onto tier 4. The difference of tier 3 tells me quite well how tier 2 and 1 are, and from that I get the feeling that tier 1 players are those that have never touched an fps in their lives. If you’re that bad, then bots will own you more than being matched with players of equal skill level. QL also doesn’t allow good players to join lower level games for an easy ride.

(DarkangelUK) #35

[QUOTE=SockDog;413163]
Legacy (would be nice to spawn some RTCW bots for a quick go once in a while)[/QUOTE]

Damn those licencing laws! How sweet would it be to be able to buy retro skin packs! RtCW, ET and ETQW skins for a decent fee that also covers costs for the owners (double post I know but I got rather excited there)

(SockDog) #36

I wonder how much a forcemodel option would be so you could just pick WWII models and skins and not have to be concerned about which colour dress a player is wearing today.

(iwound) #37

iv always wanted a simple way of just uploading any uniform. fit in a simple human shape
upload and seen by all.

bots would have crash test dummy skins. also if bots come there must be a comedy slider, increase for more lolz.
think… battle droid from clone wars. i would love that skin.

(SinDonor) #38

Bot skins/AI sets could be a revenue source for SD. Open it up for modders/skinners as well, but SD could release their own “professionally created” bot skins pack with unique animations and voice audio etc for a nominal fee.

(tangoliber) #39

[QUOTE=tokamak;413155]There will always be better and worse players no matter what. However, when you’re letting the worse players hide offline then you’re cutting away the lower half of the playerbase, this automatically raises the skill of the average player online and makes the multiplayer even more daunting.

Then there’s there’s the stunted learning that happens offline. The kind of player can’t stand being constantly beaten won’t be playing against bots worthy of his skills, he’ll prefer an easy fragging session and be the king of his private matches.

The idea that bots will be used to improve one’s skill is just utterly fallacious, the only people that are willing to do that are the same people that wouldn’t mind improving their skill online either.[/QUOTE]

They are helpful for people first learning the game, as with TF2 or something. I just don’t see the evidence that it can hurt the community, when so many games with good communities have botmatch modes.

Actually, I’ve always wanted to be able to tweak the AI (Unreal Tournament style) for an Enemy Territory style game. I’d like to set the classes/weapons for bots on both sides, and adjust their aggressiveness or whatever.

(tokamak) #40

Then again there’s enough F2P games that function marvellously without bots. There actually aren’t that many F2P games that include bots.