Anti cheat

(BomBaKlaK) #1

So the big problem with FPS these days are the cheaters. I mean the real ones !
Report system clearly not working all the little pupies rapped by good players use report because of there frustration, not because the player is a cheater… Actually I’ used to be kicked or banned from a lot of BF3 servers like my mates, we are really not cheater, we like the game and we play for fun since years are always looking to get the real cheaters out of our servers, but little frustrated easy kill pupies like to use there admin power to show there skill. you can only detect real cheaters (if they bypass the standard anticheat) with a spec mod, if there is an aimbot we can see it, same for wall hack. and if not you can prove that you are not a cheater by the way, admin can spec you.

So my question are :

what is the anticheat for dirty bomb ?
How can you ban a player from a free2play ? (unlimited accounts can be created)
can we have a Spec mod ? like explain before

(Dysfunkshion) #2

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;415323]what is the anticheat for dirty bomb ?
How can you ban a player from a free2play ? (unlimited accounts can be created)
can we have a Spec mod ? like explain before[/QUOTE]
I hope you can switch to spectate at all times and that you’re able to spectate individual players. This is still the best way to look for cheaters, especiall botters. Wallhackers are still more difficult, except the really obvious ones.

I guess SD will be able to IPban toxic players, I’m sure that you can do a work around for IPbans but I’m also pretty sure that you can counter that as well.

(Raga) #3

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33348-Questions-answers(hopefully)?p=410949&viewfull=1#post410949 :wink:

(Kendle) #4

LOL, on Fireteam’s “Who we are” page :-

Stephen Gaffney / Chief Executive Officer / @sdgaffney

Steve’s 10+ years in game development include … heading an entire game studio for development of worldwide number 1 hit BRINK.

I appreciate it’s a marketing page, but there’s spin and then there’s SPIN :slight_smile:

(Scarescrow) #5

There are ways to automate cheat detection that have not been looked into, or, I’m not aware off.

Instead of the usual punkbuster method which just searches for known cheats and fails or takes screenshots and fails again, you can have all the clients and the server look for nonhuman behavior. Cheat detection on the client’s machine is a joke and will never work 100%.

What is nonhuman behavior?
Each client can track how long and how accurate the other clients are keeping their cross hairs on our player. Do they do it even with obstacles between us?

I think this easily spots wallhackers and aimbotters and there’s little they can do about it.

(Kendle) #6

I seriously doubt that’s possible, as aimbots generally hook into client-side graphics software, something the server, and therefore other players, have no access to or knowledge of, and which is why client-side cheat detection is the only really practical method (and why such cheats will always exist).

Server side wall-hack detection is possible, and I believe there are some games / mods that enable it, because for that you only need to know the position of the shooter, the position of the target, and what’s in-between them in the map, all things that are known to the server.

(NeoRussia) #7

[QUOTE=Scarescrow;415969]There are ways to automate cheat detection that have not been looked into, or, I’m not aware off.

Instead of the usual punkbuster method which just searches for known cheats and fails or takes screenshots and fails again, you can have all the clients and the server look for nonhuman behavior. Cheat detection on the client’s machine is a joke and will never work 100%.

What is nonhuman behavior?
Each client can track how long and how accurate the other clients are keeping their cross hairs on our player. Do they do it even with obstacles between us?

I think this easily spots wallhackers and aimbotters and there’s little they can do about it.[/QUOTE]

So your idea of anticheat is to ban all good players?:cool:
No amount of aim/prediction is inhuman. Unless all pro players are robots, of course. I can asure you they are not, I’ve met some IRL.

(Raide) #8

[QUOTE=Kendle;415975]I seriously doubt that’s possible, as aimbots generally hook into client-side graphics software, something the server, and therefore other players, have no access to or knowledge of, and which is why client-side cheat detection is the only really practical method (and why such cheats will always exist).

Server side wall-hack detection is possible, and I believe there are some games / mods that enable it, because for that you only need to know the position of the shooter, the position of the target, and what’s in-between them in the map, all things that are known to the server.[/QUOTE]

Some dudes are running a private server for some game called BOTS (or BOUT) which was published by the now-dead Acclaim. They claim that they have server-side hack protection that automatically bans users for script hacking.
Now, I don’t know how this stuff works, but to me, that sounds like a server-side hack prevention that can detect client-side tomfoolery. Not saying that it would work for a shooter like Dirty Bomb, just thought it was interesting.

http://bout.evolutiongames.net/page.php?gm=bannasc

(Kendle) #9

That’s not the same thing, most games have “config” files, some, like ET have a scripting language you can use to automate certain actions, but these files (or rather the commands they contain) are communicated to the server so the server can take whatever action is appropriate as a response.

That’s got nothing to do with the graphics drivers on your PC which an aimbot would typically hook itself onto.

(NeoRussia) #10

That’s not true, aimbots have nothing to do with GPU drivers. 99% of them are a workaround of the anticheat then a dll inject and/or directx overlay.

(Kendle) #11

Well that’s what I meant, they use the “whatever it is that draws the picture on your screen”, as in client-side software that the server has no knowledge of and therefore no-one else on the server can have no knowledge of. :slight_smile:

(Raide) #12

[QUOTE=Kendle;416038]That’s not the same thing, most games have “config” files, some, like ET have a scripting language you can use to automate certain actions, but these files (or rather the commands they contain) are communicated to the server so the server can take whatever action is appropriate as a response.

That’s got nothing to do with the graphics drivers on your PC which an aimbot would typically hook itself onto.[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see, thanks.

(Scarescrow) #13

[QUOTE=Kendle;415975]I seriously doubt that’s possible, as aimbots generally hook into client-side graphics software, something the server, and therefore other players, have no access to or knowledge of, and which is why client-side cheat detection is the only really practical method (and why such cheats will always exist).

Server side wall-hack detection is possible, and I believe there are some games / mods that enable it, because for that you only need to know the position of the shooter, the position of the target, and what’s in-between them in the map, all things that are known to the server.[/QUOTE]

Have you just started playing games yesterday? How the hell do you figure your client knows to display you the LOCATION and ORIENTATION of other players on the server? Do you think that’s guessed? NO, it’s sent by the client to the server who sends it to everyone else. And aimbotter does exactly that, points you at the target. If it didn’t, the server wouldn’t acknowledge the kill.

(Kendle) #14

2001 actually.

You said :-

(emphasis added)

This is not true. The server, and therefore other clients, has no knowledge of where your crosshair is ALL THE TIME, it only knows what you were pointing at WHEN YOU PRESSED YOUR FIRE BUTTON. It then uses this information to calculate what you may or may not have hit (based on what it knows of where you are and where everyone else is).

Is that clearer?

(Scarescrow) #15

If it’s not true, why do cheat programs know who is targeting you and how accurate?

(Kendle) #16

The server sends game world updates to each client periodically (many times a second usually). The client uses this information to draw other players on your screen, so you know where they are, what team they’re on, what gun they’re holding etc., and to ensure a smooth experience for you the client extrapolates (i.e. “fills in”) any gaps in it’s data so it appears to you everything’s happening in real time.

For example, the server might tell the client that at timestamp 1 player A was at X:Y:Z, and at timestamp 2 player A was at X+2:Y+3:Z-1 etc., the client then plays an animation appropriate to player A moving between these 2 co-ordinates.

I guess cheat software on the client PC could use this information to calculate approximate targeting / accuracy statistics for other players, however it would still only be an approximation, it wouldn’t “know”, and what’s more I doubt the data received from the server is specific enough to be relied on for anti-cheat purposes.

(murka) #17

I will not believe in anticheats until they start giving false positives for fraps, which pretty much hooks into the gfx calls like an aimbot would.

(Scarescrow) #18

Kendle, you’re clearly talking out of your ass here, and you never actually wrote something like client server communication for a game, or used one that was already built or you’d know what you just wrote is good for games like big rigs.

A game client sends whatever the programmer wants it to and needs to know on the other side, and your crude example is, laughale at best. Location is not sufficient. And if you want to give me another stupid example of bandwidth requirements for where exactly a player is aiming, don’t bother. Quake 1 does send orientation information from all the players along with location. Orientation doesn’t just mean a general direction where the player is facing. It’s actually enough info so you can work out where he’s aiming. Check quake 1 source code.

Any client has enough information from the clients in his surroundings to figure out if they’re holding aim on his location or not and how good that sim is.

You could argue that aimbotters will only hold perfect aim only when shooting, but those idiots are easily spotted anyways. This is more about those cautios cheaters who use only the targetting through walls, over large distances just to have an advantage.

Anyways, since this forum is full of know-it-alls who actually never wrote a single line of code in their entire lifes, i’m wasting my time here.

Good ridance.

(ailmanki) #19

[QUOTE=Kendle;416635]The server sends game world updates to each client periodically (many times a second usually). The client uses this information to draw other players on your screen, so you know where they are, what team they’re on, what gun they’re holding etc., and to ensure a smooth experience for you the client extrapolates (i.e. “fills in”) any gaps in it’s data so it appears to you everything’s happening in real time.

For example, the server might tell the client that at timestamp 1 player A was at X:Y:Z, and at timestamp 2 player A was at X+2:Y+3:Z-1 etc., the client then plays an animation appropriate to player A moving between these 2 co-ordinates.

I guess cheat software on the client PC could use this information to calculate approximate targeting / accuracy statistics for other players, however it would still only be an approximation, it wouldn’t “know”, and what’s more I doubt the data received from the server is specific enough to be relied on for anti-cheat purposes.[/QUOTE]

In ET it was possible to record the hole match - ETTV, and spec afterwards each player. So I suppose all movement is recorded by server.
Client side its not possible to detect cheats for sure. There are ways to bypass any anticheat running on the client. So the anticheat should run on the server. Now you cannot detect software on the client by the server, but you can analyze every player action.
http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/2947183/detecting-cheaters-for-multiplayer-games-theory-design-and-implementation-1

The methodology is based on the dynamic Bayesian network approach. The detection framework relies solely on the game states and runs in the game server only. Therefore it is invulnerable to hacks and it is a much more deployable solution. To demonstrate the effectiveness of the propose method, we implement a prototype multiplayer game system and to detect whether a player is using the “aiming robot” for cheating or not. Experiments show that not only we can effectively detect cheaters, but the false positive rate is extremely low.

(Kendle) #20

Then do enlighten me instead of being an obnoxious prick, you never know you might like it :slight_smile:

This thread might help demonstrate I’m not talking entirely out of my behind :-

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/8355-The-Truth-about-Cheating-in-ET

And see the contribution from one of the SD devs :-

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/8355-The-Truth-about-Cheating-in-ET?p=84003&viewfull=1#post84003