An idea for a team ability for Phantom

[SteelMailbox]

I had this idea awhile ago while speaking with @N8o and it is basically an ability which acts like an healing pulse but instead of healing it will spot enemies in a radius which grows the more you are holding it. Spotting time will also be increased the more it is holded.

[SirSwag1]

Damn so simple… But so appropriate for Phantom. I like it. It might be a give away to just randomly get spotted though XD

[Jostabeere]

Throwing knifes that let you stay invisible and permanently mark enemies untill they get killed by your team (so no K’ing out).

[BananaSlug]

hey phantom with that would be useful !

[gloomyRequirement]

Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Piphat play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty.

[gloomyRequirement]

[quote=“gg2ez;145529”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty. [/quote]

You’re all underestimating the power of a merc for the sole purpose of killing enemies. He has no utility aside from that indeed - but that’s his role.

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

I find it rather sad to see how little of you realize there’s more than “utility”. Why I consider him difficult is for you simply need good aiming skill, you’ll have the upper hand once engaging - but you need to have the game sense to get out alive and be able to land a burst of headshots to finish of the target quickly. If you can’t aim well you cant play Phantom.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;145606”][quote=“gg2ez;145529”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty. [/quote]

You’re all underestimating the power of a merc for the sole purpose of killing enemies. He has no utility aside from that indeed - but that’s his role.

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

I find it rather sad to see how little of you realize there’s more than “utility”. Why I consider him difficult is for you simply need good aiming skill, you’ll have the upper hand once engaging - but you need to have the game sense to get out alive and be able to land a burst of headshots to finish of the target quickly. If you can’t aim well you cant play Phantom.[/quote]

Get that “only for killing” bullshit outta here. You’re talking as if having good accuracy is only rewarding for Phantom. Newsflash, Einstein - you’ll have the upper hand with any merc if you have greater accuracy than your opponent. How is that unique to Phantom? It’s not, and guess what? Those other mercs that can do the exact same thing - they all have utility.

[gloomyRequirement]

[quote=“gg2ez;145636”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145606”][quote=“gg2ez;145529”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty. [/quote]

You’re all underestimating the power of a merc for the sole purpose of killing enemies. He has no utility aside from that indeed - but that’s his role.

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

I find it rather sad to see how little of you realize there’s more than “utility”. Why I consider him difficult is for you simply need good aiming skill, you’ll have the upper hand once engaging - but you need to have the game sense to get out alive and be able to land a burst of headshots to finish of the target quickly. If you can’t aim well you cant play Phantom.[/quote]

Get that “only for killing” bullshit outta here. You’re talking as if having good accuracy is only rewarding for Phantom. Newsflash, Einstein - you’ll have the upper hand with any merc if you have greater accuracy than your opponent. How is that unique to Phantom? It’s not, and guess what? Those other mercs that can do the exact same thing - they all have utility. [/quote]

Would you listen to this pretentious knobhead. If you are to argue with me you’d best buy yourself another braincell as your current only one clearly isn’t functioning well.

I never said or even implied Phantom is the only merc that benefits from great accuracy, he benefits from it as you get to position yourself unlike any other merc. If Vassili misses a shot that’s annoying, but he doesn’t immediately suffer backlashes, if Phantom misses a burst he’s immediately in danger. Shooting and accuracy aren’t equally important in each scenario you numbskull.

The REAL upside phantom has is that he can position himself, and escape safely, given he plays properly. Which I am very certain of you are not good at.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;145638”][quote=“gg2ez;145636”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145606”][quote=“gg2ez;145529”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty. [/quote]

You’re all underestimating the power of a merc for the sole purpose of killing enemies. He has no utility aside from that indeed - but that’s his role.

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

I find it rather sad to see how little of you realize there’s more than “utility”. Why I consider him difficult is for you simply need good aiming skill, you’ll have the upper hand once engaging - but you need to have the game sense to get out alive and be able to land a burst of headshots to finish of the target quickly. If you can’t aim well you cant play Phantom.[/quote]

Get that “only for killing” bullshit outta here. You’re talking as if having good accuracy is only rewarding for Phantom. Newsflash, Einstein - you’ll have the upper hand with any merc if you have greater accuracy than your opponent. How is that unique to Phantom? It’s not, and guess what? Those other mercs that can do the exact same thing - they all have utility. [/quote]

Would you listen to this pretentious knobhead. If you are to argue with me you’d best buy yourself another braincell as your current only one clearly isn’t functioning well.

I never said or even implied Phantom is the only merc that benefits from great accuracy, he benefits from it as you get to position yourself unlike any other merc. If Vassili misses a shot that’s annoying, but he doesn’t immediately suffer backlashes, if Phantom misses a burst he’s immediately in danger. Shooting and accuracy aren’t equally important in each scenario you numbskull.

The REAL upside phantom has is that he can position himself, and escape safely, given he plays properly. Which I am very certain of you are not good at.[/quote]

You think his cloak makes him able to reposition himself any better than another merc? Try saying that one twice when you’re actually going up against half-decent players that aren’t blind or deaf. As it standd right now, Phantom’s cloak is a piece of absolute f*cking trash, and not saying this from a first person standpoint either, from the other end of the cloak, it IS a piece of trash.

Slander is a nice garment on you, It really brings out the unintelligible twat in your eyes. Keep em coming.

[gloomyRequirement]

[quote=“gg2ez;145645”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145638”][quote=“gg2ez;145636”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145606”][quote=“gg2ez;145529”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty. [/quote]

You’re all underestimating the power of a merc for the sole purpose of killing enemies. He has no utility aside from that indeed - but that’s his role.

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

I find it rather sad to see how little of you realize there’s more than “utility”. Why I consider him difficult is for you simply need good aiming skill, you’ll have the upper hand once engaging - but you need to have the game sense to get out alive and be able to land a burst of headshots to finish of the target quickly. If you can’t aim well you cant play Phantom.[/quote]

Get that “only for killing” bullshit outta here. You’re talking as if having good accuracy is only rewarding for Phantom. Newsflash, Einstein - you’ll have the upper hand with any merc if you have greater accuracy than your opponent. How is that unique to Phantom? It’s not, and guess what? Those other mercs that can do the exact same thing - they all have utility. [/quote]

Would you listen to this pretentious knobhead. If you are to argue with me you’d best buy yourself another braincell as your current only one clearly isn’t functioning well.

I never said or even implied Phantom is the only merc that benefits from great accuracy, he benefits from it as you get to position yourself unlike any other merc. If Vassili misses a shot that’s annoying, but he doesn’t immediately suffer backlashes, if Phantom misses a burst he’s immediately in danger. Shooting and accuracy aren’t equally important in each scenario you numbskull.

The REAL upside phantom has is that he can position himself, and escape safely, given he plays properly. Which I am very certain of you are not good at.[/quote]

You think his cloak makes him able to reposition himself any better than another merc? Try saying that one twice when you’re actually going up against half-decent players that aren’t blind or deaf. As it standd right now, Phantom’s cloak is a piece of absolute f*cking trash, and not saying this from a first person standpoint either, from the other end of the cloak, it IS a piece of trash.

Slander is a nice garment on you, It really brings out the unintelligible twat in your eyes. Keep em coming. [/quote]

“This is objectively so because I find it”, man I don’t even have the time to write down how many fallacies you get to trip into with such a small paragraph of pure anger.

His cloak is NOT trash. When you wait around a corner you get to perfectly flank enemies(standing still makes you near invisible in case you weren’t aware). Cloak allows him to soak almost 2 nader grenades(not direct impact) on escape. He can’t be spotted by Vassili and even at midrange when moving his cloak can make him seriously obscure to spot.

I’m afraid you’re just not good at Phantom. But that doesn’t mean he’s weak.

[LifeupOmega]

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Piphat play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

Nah. Phantom is just awful. He brings nothing to the table that other mercs can’t do, and the other mercs all have abilities which are actually useful. Even before his nerfs he was never even considered for use competitively, which says it all.

I mean, if your entire argument is based on pubs then yeah sure whatever any merc can work. But once you look at how actual teams play you’ll find that Phantom has literally no place in the lineup. You want someone who can kill? You use Fragger, Nader, or Redeye (who can also spot on top of that). You want an off-class for the Engineer? Just fill in the spot with one of the previous two, still more useful than a Phantom. Two medics and a fire support take the other three spots. He has zero utility against an organised team, and therein lies his problem.

Vas is also pretty useless now funnily enough, Redeye does all he does and better. The jump nerf just crippled his mobility and forces him to play at the back instead of aggressively.

[ASTOUNDINGSHELL]

@LifeupOmega I would usually agree that phantom is oen fo thsoe mercs you paly for fun rahter than for competitive, But when you see a prop-pahntom go to work on a ranekd match you eat your own words, trust me a very skilled phantom player can take down even RHinos without trouble

[LifeupOmega]

@LifeupOmega I would usually agree that phantom is oen fo thsoe mercs you paly for fun rahter than for competitive, But when you see a prop-pahntom go to work on a ranekd match you eat your own words, trust me a very skilled phantom player can take down even RHinos without trouble

I have yet to see a Phantom even be played in competitive outside of that one time back in a DBN Cup, where the team with the Phantom couldn’t even push the first objective on Bridge. They were slaughtered, the Phantom did nothing, and they lost.

If we’re talking MM, where anyone can join, anyone can play anything and games can be Elite vs Silver, then sure, again, anything works in a pub - MM isn’t really any different. I’ve played Phantom in MM and just dinked people in the back as they walked ahead, I could do that as any other merc and probably kill more of them faster if I had a useful ability instead. People can argue all they like that he’s “in a good spot” or whatever, but the truth is that he’s a garbage merc when compared to any other merc in the game (with the possible exception of Thunder). You want a recon? You go Redeye. You want to kill? You go Fragger/Nader. You want to wipe the team efficiently? Field Supports.

All I can say positively about Phantom is that he gets the KEK-10, which makes him a little less shit than he would be otherwise…

[ASTOUNDINGSHELL]

@LifeupOmega
I have seen one in Comp, only once and he was VERY VERY! good, at it, he wasnt katana rushign all the time, but he did every so fotne did a trick jump didging all your bulelts to just dunk you with the katana and fnish you off with bullets.

[streetwiseSailboat]

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

Disabling engineer nests?

Anyway, TF2 is less reliant on support than DB, So what if he can kill? Assaults do that better and more efficiently while other classes have support abilities to help out their team.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;145654”][quote=“gg2ez;145645”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145638”][quote=“gg2ez;145636”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145606”][quote=“gg2ez;145529”][quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Fletcher play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

No. That’s not what Phantom suffers from at all. You could be the best Phantom in the world but it doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t help out the team like his fellow Recons. Phantom suffers from a lack of utility, not an excess of difficulty. [/quote]

You’re all underestimating the power of a merc for the sole purpose of killing enemies. He has no utility aside from that indeed - but that’s his role.

Like the Spy in team fortress. He has no utility, he’s not good at objectives, he’s not good at actual combat - he can’t tank damage or heal allies - but he can KILL.

I find it rather sad to see how little of you realize there’s more than “utility”. Why I consider him difficult is for you simply need good aiming skill, you’ll have the upper hand once engaging - but you need to have the game sense to get out alive and be able to land a burst of headshots to finish of the target quickly. If you can’t aim well you cant play Phantom.[/quote]

Get that “only for killing” bullshit outta here. You’re talking as if having good accuracy is only rewarding for Phantom. Newsflash, Einstein - you’ll have the upper hand with any merc if you have greater accuracy than your opponent. How is that unique to Phantom? It’s not, and guess what? Those other mercs that can do the exact same thing - they all have utility. [/quote]

Would you listen to this pretentious knobhead. If you are to argue with me you’d best buy yourself another braincell as your current only one clearly isn’t functioning well.

I never said or even implied Phantom is the only merc that benefits from great accuracy, he benefits from it as you get to position yourself unlike any other merc. If Vassili misses a shot that’s annoying, but he doesn’t immediately suffer backlashes, if Phantom misses a burst he’s immediately in danger. Shooting and accuracy aren’t equally important in each scenario you numbskull.

The REAL upside phantom has is that he can position himself, and escape safely, given he plays properly. Which I am very certain of you are not good at.[/quote]

You think his cloak makes him able to reposition himself any better than another merc? Try saying that one twice when you’re actually going up against half-decent players that aren’t blind or deaf. As it standd right now, Phantom’s cloak is a piece of absolute f*cking trash, and not saying this from a first person standpoint either, from the other end of the cloak, it IS a piece of trash.

Slander is a nice garment on you, It really brings out the unintelligible twat in your eyes. Keep em coming. [/quote]

“This is objectively so because I find it”, man I don’t even have the time to write down how many fallacies you get to trip into with such a small paragraph of pure anger.

His cloak is NOT trash. When you wait around a corner you get to perfectly flank enemies(standing still makes you near invisible in case you weren’t aware). Cloak allows him to soak almost 2 nader grenades(not direct impact) on escape. He can’t be spotted by Vassili and even at midrange when moving his cloak can make him seriously obscure to spot.

I’m afraid you’re just not good at Phantom. But that doesn’t mean he’s weak.[/quote]

Admirable how you can criticise my fallacies and presumably “pure anger” after you’ve written three paragraphs of pure Ad Hominous gold. How do you not have the time to write down a single logical fallacy (anecdotal)? Come on mate, if you’re trying to sound like a smartass, try harder.

Sure, Phantom’s cloak isn’t trash so long as you’re playing in a pub with rookies. I actually dare you to find an experienced DB player that can’t see a cloaked Phantom.

On another note, the word we’re using here is not “weak”, it is “unuseful”. I don’t care how good or bad I am, it makes no difference to the fact that Phantom is nowhere near as useful as anyone else.

Doesn’t matter if you’re the best player in the world, you will be more help to your team playing anyone else.

[Only_Use_Me_Lazer]

Put simply, (to recap in less words then what others said earlier) phantom is a recon class that cant, well, recon. He is more suited to an assault class, since recon is more about finding the opponents and communicating that info. Phantom can’t do that. Yes, he can kill, which is again ASSAULT. If he was considered assault he would instantly become better, in my opinion, but would likely require a minor tweak or two.

Whether this is related or coincidental I don’t know, but in my experience Phantom players are typically more childish and less serious (most trolls I’ve met seem to use Phantom, for instance). But he is a good, and fun, character. But in terms of what skill he adds, his best claim is the katana, really.

[derpyMoonMoon]

This is an amazing idea, and something I’ve thought about every time I play Phantom myself. Sure the cloak is cool, but useless unless you’re playing with inexperienced players.

I love the idea of Phantom, but with the single utility ability that doesn’t even help his teammates, he isn’t worth playing if you plan on winning. With all of the close range combat and shotguns in the game, melee combat is very important, and Phantom is a specialist in CQC. If he just had one support ability, like Vassili’s heartbeat monitor in the form of Phoenix’s healing pulse, it would make him worthwhile.

There are only three recon classes right now, all of which take a lot of skill to master, and if there was just this simple upgrade, Phantom would be on par with all of the other mercs in my opinion.

I realize this falls on deaf dev ears, but it’s something to at least consider.

[Jesus2]

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;145500”]Phantom suffers the Vassili syndrome. He is not weak, he is not useless. He’s in fact a good merc already. The problem is there’re some more difficult mercs to play effectively, looking at Fletcher and Nader and then there’s a HUGE gap after which we find Vassili and Phantom.

They’re just too difficult to play for most people. You should pit some extremely skilled players against one another to truly test them(like I thought Fletcher was pretty mediocre until I saw Piphat play him. I personally am good at Phantom), for I can assure you Phantom is nor weak or useless in the hands of a good player.[/quote]

You are the guy who did a post on the “the molotov is too weak” therefore you lost any credibility in the eyes of God and his son.