Ammo stations around map.

(Raviolay) #1

I understand why they are there, however in objective game modes can they be removed, when the server hits a predefined player count? Then if the server count drops off again, they re-appear. I think when 8 players are in a server that is the sweet spot, to remove the ammo stations.

(Smooth) #2

We’ll be re-working the mechanics and placement of these as we go but I don’t think they’ll be removed entirely.

They are too effective right now and definitely need to only be a “poor man’s” substitute for having a Fire Support dishing out the ammo.

(ImageOmega) #3

They need to either be removed or painful to get to. Meaning you have to traverse quite away from an objective fighting area to go get ammo the come back. Otherwise these areas with ammo depots become easy places to set up shop without the need for a field ops.

(nailzor) #4

[QUOTE=Smooth;439238]We’ll be re-working the mechanics and placement of these as we go but I don’t think they’ll be removed entirely.

They are too effective right now and definitely need to only be a “poor man’s” substitute for having a Fire Support dishing out the ammo.[/QUOTE]

Agreed ‘too effective’ is a great way to put it.

I think it would be really cool if it was a server side config option that is able to be enabled/disabled by the server host.

My proposals:

[ol]
[li]Less ammo on spawn for all classes[/li][li]Ammo bins either a) Removed entirely or b) Maximum of 1-2 on an entire map[/li][li]Ammo drops from Field Ops should replenish grenades[/li][/ol]

As it stands, there is no need to play Field Ops for anything except destroying the EV.

By removing Ammo from gibbed bodies that was a step in the right direction, but starting with nearly full ammo on all classes and having ammo bins everywhere removes the need/desire to play Field Ops.

My perspective is, why would I play Field Ops when I can play Medic and the amount of healing I can do to myself and teammates outweighs the difference between their guns.

(Mustang) #5

It shouldn’t really be the case that you can insta-pick-up ALL the ammo boxes in one go leaving none for anyone else.

Perhaps after picking up a single box there should be a 2 second delay before the next can be picked up.

(Kendle) #6

They need to go completely, as does health regen. I can’t see a way to balance the classes when other game mechanics undermine some of their functionality.

Asking where the ammo racks should be placed is like asking which brand of polish should we use for this turd (old English saying) :slight_smile:

(warbie) #7

I can’t think of a good solution for ammo stashes. You can’t have them at spawn as everyone will stock up straight away and we won’t need a field ops and you can’t have them at the objective for the same reason. If they’re stuck way out to the side somewhere we have teams spreading out in a game that works best when teams are close together. It just seems like another unnecessary addition that has negative knock on effects. DB needs more focussed choke point orientated maps with teams that move and fight together. That’s how we get teamplay - when classes that need each other are close together and working towards the same objective. Where do ammo stashes fit into that?

(MrFunkyFunk) #8

Hopefuly you will reduce them and move them away from strategic busy places/chokepoints.
It will be less of a free fastfood drive-in if players have to retreat from the action to refill (changing the fights dynamic to a sea-tide pattern) instead of counting on the team fops and favor teamplay.

(nailzor) #9

Honestly, I’d like to see them removed entirely and test it for a couple weeks to see how it works.

At the same time, reduce the amount of ammo that all other classes spawn with?

Engineer, Soldier, Covert, Medic have so much ammo off the start they don’t ever have to worry about running out right now, and if they do they can either run 20ft to an ammo station or suicide and come back since spawn times are so short.

Spawning with full SMG ammo and nearly full pistol ammo as medic makes the Medic self sustain currently without any assistance (may take a bit longer to kill people due to gun damage but thats fine!)

(Samurai.) #10

I am all for removing these ammo stations as well, however my line of thought would be towards implementing them as part of this reward system for the Fops class (SD were talking about tier 1/2/3/4 system for each game etc) if they must be implemented.

Right now i really dislike playing objective mode because there are no spawn waves, so the rest of this post is basically assuming spawn waves will be applied to obj and SW servers… (which i think should happen).

Benefits of removing ammo stations:

[ul]
[li]When you have no ammo, you can communicate with a Fops to drop some for you encouraging greater teamwork and communication. (Also giving the Fops a important role of supplying the team). [/li][li]The alternative is to time a perfect self-kill to get more ammo & hp (but sacrifice the position you are holding). For this to happen though we need a spawn timer on the HUD -> this is also a reason why we should remove Health regen but that’s another topic.[/li][li]This would also increase the importance of capturing forward spawns on certain maps as the closer respawn once captured would mean self killing wouldn’t be such a disadvantage to gain more ammo (as the position you are leaving would be closer to regain) but the sacrifice is still enough to leave gaps for the defence/offense to recover control.[/li][li] it would put greater emphasis on using the pistols effectively rather than entirely Primary Weapon -> refill -> continue with Primary Weapon -> switch to pistol to finish of an enemy -> run to refill station -> carry on with Primary Weapon - which is currently happening.[/li][li] These ammo stations are current located in very advantageous positions right now that basically empower medic’s to hold on their own as they can supply health & ammo without dependency on the rest of the team. [/li][/ul]

(ImageOmega) #11

[QUOTE=Samurai.;439289]I am all for removing these ammo stations as well, however my line of thought would be towards implementing them as part of this reward system for the Fops class (SD were talking about tier 1/2/3/4 system for each game etc) if they must be implemented.

Right now i really dislike playing objective mode because there are no spawn waves, so the rest of this post is basically assuming spawn waves will be applied to obj and SW servers… (which i think should happen).

Benefits of removing ammo stations:

[ul]
[li]When you have no ammo, you can communicate with a Fops to drop some for you encouraging greater teamwork and communication. (Also giving the Fops a important role of supplying the team). [/li][li]The alternative is to time a perfect self-kill to get more ammo & hp (but sacrifice the position you are holding). For this to happen though we need a spawn timer on the HUD -> this is also a reason why we should remove Health regen but that’s another topic.[/li][li]This would also increase the importance of capturing forward spawns on certain maps as the closer respawn once captured would mean self killing wouldn’t be such a disadvantage to gain more ammo (as the position you are leaving would be closer to regain) but the sacrifice is still enough to leave gaps for the defence/offense to recover control.[/li][li] it would put greater emphasis on using the pistols effectively rather than entirely Primary Weapon -> refill -> continue with Primary Weapon -> switch to pistol to finish of an enemy -> run to refill station -> carry on with Primary Weapon - which is currently happening.[/li][li] These ammo stations are current located in very advantageous positions right now that basically empower medic’s to hold on their own as they can supply health & ammo without dependency on the rest of the team. [/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

This guy knows what he is talking about. One isse though is that the pistol can be way more effective than the primary due to all the other factors we’ve exhausted taking about.

(INF3RN0) #12

I’d like ammo bins to become side-objs first before removing them completely. This could be used as a means of giving FOPS a map interaction role, which I’d like on all classes as a means of giving them more dynamic roles. Here’s just a few ideas…

FOPS- fills ammo bins that last for X seconds or give out X ammo (consumes all of FOPS available ammo packs, c/d recharge a bit longer after use also). Basically FOPS temporarily limits his ability to give out ammo while mobile by dumping it in a bin.

Engineer- constructable barriers blocking side-routes to objs, constructable bridges offering new routes to objs, construct MG nests, construct cover, etc

Soldier- plants on all constructable side objectives and main objectives.

Medic- maybe something similar with med packs to what I suggested with the FOPS ammo bins; not sure if it would be necessary though.

Recon- hackable side doors, can sabotage (temp disable) doors/elevator lifts, constructable signal jammers (disable UAV/radar nades in area), sabotage ammo bins/health bins. I’m also assuming disguises are coming back, which would make these a bit more doable.

(nailzor) #13

Not to get too off topic as I want to see comments about Ammo more than anything, but regards to Samurai - I think SD implemented spawn waves, but they are not working correctly yet as you are highlighting and talking about.

[ol]
[li]Many times through a round you will instantly
[/li][li]When you have the option to spawn that option does not go away. I think it should be, you either spawn, or you wait until the next wave.
[/li][li]There is a grace period to hitting the spawn wave which I’d like to see removed
[/li][li]The spawn times should be increased on both offense/defense (I have proposed 20 seconds offense, 30 seconds defense as a starting point)
[/li][li]Addition of a hud timer
[/li][/ol]

SD has stated this is the first patch regarding spawn waves so there is definitely lots of great feedback around them.

Anyways… back to ammo feedback!

(BTMPL) #14

> Many times through a round you will instantly

Taht just means you died (and was gibed) right as the wave starts

> When you have the option to spawn that option does not go away. I think it should be, you either spawn, or you wait until the next wave.

You are dead but not yet gibed. Can respawn or can wait for medic

> The spawn times should be increased on both offense/defense (I have proposed 20 seconds offense, 30 seconds defense as a starting point)

Agree

> Addition of a hud timer

Also agree

(nailzor) #15

Right, but if it was an actual “Spawn Wave” - then you would need to spawn before the timer goes to 0, or wait another spawn wave. That is kinda what I meant :wink: