Ammo & Recoil

(Kurnuttaja) #1

I was just wondering that why are the assault rifles made worse than the SMGs in almost any aspect. The fights happen often in close quarters where SMGs and shotguns shine, but what about assault rifles? And if I try to take advance from longer range with controlled bursts it ends up into a mess with recoil and holes in walls. And the ammo count is ridiculously low when compared to SMGs, which (no matter how many times I try to get any sense out of it) I just cant understand.

The issues are:

  • Unpredictable recoil (PC): After shooting a pair of bursts the gun starts to whip wildly in random directions making the controlling absolutely impossible or sometimes just totally randomly. Why doesnt the recoil act like in other games, just vertically and at each shot? As if the recoil would be slowly increasing single shot normal recoil you could estimate how many bullets you can shot still hitting the enemy per bursts. Now with the current system its hard to say how many shots each weapon can shoot before the sick recoiling starts.
  • Low ammo count on ARs, MGs and pistols: Why? It just means you have to play soldier to use these weapons without having to run back and forth in a command post (theres not always helpful soldiers in the pubs, who follow you all the time).

:rolleyes:

(blargo) #2

ManGiraffeDog, a horrible marauding godless killing machine, is coming to destroy humanity. I’ve come to warn you to RUN AWAY and save yourselves. Here’s what it looks like so you can be prepared:

I’m super serial.

(PsYcHo) #3

I don’t know what your problem is.
The AR’s are fine imo. In bursts they are very good.
And… why should the recoil should be like in other games? I don’t want zero recoil like in CoD or many other games. Im so happy that the recoil is so high in brink :slight_smile:
Low ammo count? You know why? Because there would be more lone wolfes then (if it would be higher). Always stay in range of your mates. Maybe search some other players who play with you? So you can talk to them that they give you ammo.

@blargo: It is getting boring.

(Kurnuttaja) #4

[QUOTE=PsYcHo;319099]I don’t know what your problem is.
The AR’s are fine imo. In bursts they are very good.
And… why should the recoil should be like in other games? I don’t want zero recoil like in CoD or many other games. Im so happy that the recoil is so high in brink :slight_smile:
Low ammo count? You know why? Because there would be more lone wolfes then (if it would be higher). Always stay in range of your mates. Maybe search some other players who play with you? So you can talk to them that they give you ammo.

@blargo: It is getting boring.[/QUOTE]

I dont want to reduce the recoil, but make it predictable so when the gun starts to recoil you could still aim somehow. Right now the recoil makes it just random spray and pray for lucky hits.

If the ammo count is low because of lone wolves, then why does SMGs have so much ammo? Which is not fair in any little way (favoring the Light). I have started to play soldier only because of this, so you never run out of ammo and get the extra clip for ARs.

(DazTroyer) #5

The AR’s with the grip attachment and silencer are pretty stable.

(Inofor) #6

Silencer affects stability? I thought it only reduced damage.

(Thatgingerkid) #7

You are right. They only reduce damage and keep you from showing on the radar when firing.
Honestly, after some getting used to, I can shoot the Assault Rifles in a consistent group. 2 round bursts help immensely! If anyone has played CS they should know how to do it.
I really wouldn’t mind seeing ARs have an extra magazine or two on what they have now, maybe on the pistols too. If not that then reduce the SMG mag count by 2, so they they have 120 rounds by default. Soldiers would then bring that up to 150 total and then 180 with the extra mag ability. Reducing it more than that would be great but I’m trying to stay believable here

(DazTroyer) #8

Works for me lol. :cool:

(peteXnasty) #9

Once you tame the AR’s recoil, you have a gun that is capable of dropping anything. The Rhett isn’t so good, the Euston requires more control and is btter in CQB, but the Gerand is like a long range knocout punch with a COGA. Keep a launcher handy to control someone rushing you down.

As for ammo? Control your bursts, have a reliable sidearm, anddont be afraid to pull back to find a soldier who will be HAPPY to refill you from empty (170 XP!)

(BiigDaddyDellta) #10

[QUOTE=Kurnuttaja;319063]I was just wondering that why are the assault rifles made directly worse than the SMGs in almost any aspect. The fights happen often in close quarters where SMGs and shotguns shine, but what about assault rifles? And if I try to take advance from longer range with controlled bursts it ends up into a mess with recoil and holes in walls. And the ammo count is ridiculously low when compared to SMGs, which (no matter how many times I try to get any sense out of it) I just cant understand.

The issues are:

  • Unpredictable recoil (PC): After shooting a pair of bursts the gun starts to whip wildly in random directions making the controlling absolutely impossible or sometimes just totally randomly. Why doesnt the recoil act like in other games, just vertically?
  • Low ammo count on ARs, MGs and pistols: Why? It just means you have to play soldier to use these weapons without having to run back and forth in a command post (theres not always helpful soldiers in the pubs, who follow you all the time).

Only solution to use ARs is to spray’n’pray hipfire and play soldier.

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

you should watch your reticle instead of your weapons animation. And the ammo thing is done on purpose so you conserve/buffed and be buffed by well played team mates. (I know those are hard to find sometimes.)

(playa) #11

I think the recoil sucks but the ammo is balanced so there is no opportunity for rambo meds

(Calelith) #12

[QUOTE=Kurnuttaja;319436]I dont want to reduce the recoil, but make it predictable so when the gun starts to recoil you could still aim somehow. Right now the recoil makes it just random spray and pray for lucky hits.

If the ammo count is low because of lone wolves, then why does SMGs have so much ammo? Which is not fair in any little way (favoring the Light). I have started to play soldier only because of this, so you never run out of ammo and get the extra clip for ARs.[/QUOTE]

I do agree, ARs need a little more ammo.

(Kurnuttaja) #13

I dont hipfire with assault rifles and as far as I know ironsights / red dots dont have a reticle. And if the ammo thing would be done on purpose then why does SMGs have so much more ammo reserved? Seriously you should try the ARs before posting like I would be discussing about SMGs.

About rambo medics: They already go with SMGs

(WallWeasels) #14

To all the people saying “use front grip” don’t seem to understand it actually does nothing to help. Literally test it yourself and you’ll find the spread and stability are not effected. :confused: Most of things effect the “base” spread but not how much it actually spreads, therefore making anything past 1 shot no more accurate.

The only “accurate” AR is the Gerund in my opinion because its “random” kick is very tiny. The reason why recoil is retarded in this game is because there are two types of recoil added:

1/ Physical Recoil: This is the actual weapons “kick” per shot, almost all games use this in varying amounts based on the weapons.

2/ Random “Kick”: This happens on many weapons just randomly. Each weapon does this at a different rate. For instance the Rhett does this MASSIVELY and the Carb9 does this noticeably at random.

It is the random kick that starts removing the requirement to even care to aim because by random chance you will just be messed up by chance. Ammo is fairly balanced on the ARs and shows the requirement for Ammo-Giving that this game SHOULD emphasize. However the SMGs usually have to much ammo, which means they can lone-wolf without ammo for sometime. The Carb 9 can have 60 bullets in it with 120 in reserve. It has a base of 5 reloads on its 30 normal magazine. Gerund has 2 reloads base :expressionless: This is an obvious choice and why? Brink really isn’t seeming to want people to achieve some kind of skill in shooting asides the light rifles :mad:

(DemiGod) #15

I agree here with the random recoil.

I consider myself something of a soldier over anything else [generally speaking - I Op in Brink]. I’m a killer. It’s what I do best. But I will have games where I somehow manage to use my gun well and others where I can unload clips in burst fire and just not kill a damn person [not to mention the games where I unload clips into people and bring them to 10-20% health and having every kill taken from me because someone decides to put one bullet in them at the end]. No difference in usage. It’s just the way that the gun is good sometimes and bad others. It really doesn’t feel like I can get any real control over it.

I’m sure there are ways to allow us to get a better feel over accuracy and precision with our guns and then change other factors of gameplay to compensate - more overall health, smaller hitboxes, more variation in what part of the body takes what kind of damage from different guns/armor, etc.

(Kurnuttaja) #16

The random kick recoil is exactly what i mean with unpredictable recoil as it acts so you never know when it happens and so cant have any control of it > spray and pray and hope for bodies to drop.

(WellSeeYaLater) #17

I could see why some people feel like they have problems with recoil. I put front grips on every gun I have, due to the recoil on ARs. I did find however that it made the Euston a great around-around weapon. At a distance I can spray off shots, and when I’m close in I can give a steady stream.

I think the other bottom attachments don’t provide the same level as use as the front grip though.

Despite the fact that I love the Euston, I think it’s unbalanced and overpowered compared to all the other ARs.

(Butcher Rabbit) #18

You know, the thing about front grip not helping at all, I tested that out after I had been playing the game for a bit. It’s a completely informal test that used simple group spotting. In other terms, I fired all the ARs and SMGs at a nice clean wall in Aquarium (because the walls are white which makes it easier to see the impacts) on automatic and burst. The bursts for ARs were typically 2-4 rounds, for SMGs they were 3-6. I tested at a couple different ranges, using boxes (I chose the area under the sharks by security) as physical benchmarks for range.

Results:
The amount of spread and variance in groups stayed consistent for burst firing and automatic for every weapon, whether hip-firing or aiming down sights (iron, dot, or coga). Full auto ended up with the first few rounds being where you aimed, then everything else tracked erratically. Burst firing was more accurate, but different weapons required different timings between bursts to maintain burst accuracy. Front Grip and Flash Suppressors (used together or separately) did help to reduce spread and recoil, with best results using both. Surprise of the day? You could fire almost all the guns in a perfect horizontal line by turning left/right, or strafing left/right.

If you want to check this for yourself, use a medium or heavy body type, find a map with a clean wall you can fire at from different ranges and set yourself up with a “you only” freeplay. Use a command post to swap out weapons. First run at the map, use them with no attachments (except sights). Second run, attach suppressors, and for a third run add front grip remove suppressors. Finish by adding both grip and suppressors.

Just my observations using something other than the numbers in the game.

(weeschwee) #19

[QUOTE=Butcher Rabbit;321003]You know, the thing about front grip not helping at all, I tested that out after I had been playing the game for a bit. It’s a completely informal test that used simple group spotting. In other terms, I fired all the ARs and SMGs at a nice clean wall in Aquarium (because the walls are white which makes it easier to see the impacts) on automatic and burst. The bursts for ARs were typically 2-4 rounds, for SMGs they were 3-6. I tested at a couple different ranges, using boxes (I chose the area under the sharks by security) as physical benchmarks for range.

Results:
The amount of spread and variance in groups stayed consistent for burst firing and automatic for every weapon, whether hip-firing or aiming down sights (iron, dot, or coga). Full auto ended up with the first few rounds being where you aimed, then everything else tracked erratically. Burst firing was more accurate, but different weapons required different timings between bursts to maintain burst accuracy. Front Grip and Flash Suppressors (used together or separately) did help to reduce spread and recoil, with best results using both. Surprise of the day? You could fire almost all the guns in a perfect horizontal line by turning left/right, or strafing left/right.

If you want to check this for yourself, use a medium or heavy body type, find a map with a clean wall you can fire at from different ranges and set yourself up with a “you only” freeplay. Use a command post to swap out weapons. First run at the map, use them with no attachments (except sights). Second run, attach suppressors, and for a third run add front grip remove suppressors. Finish by adding both grip and suppressors.

Just my observations using something other than the numbers in the game.[/QUOTE]

thanks for doing the leg work for us! it’s always sketchy whether some aspects of the game actually work at launch. i think borderlands still has some broken skills for some characters and that game is going on two years i think.

i have not done a thorough test like above, but i have used the guns with and without the attachments and have noticed a difference. the recoil isn’t random as far as time goes. each gun starts to recoil randomly after a certain amount of time. adding muzzle breaks (no silencers) and grips seemed to give you more time firing before the gun would randomly recoil. they may have slightly reduced the movement of the recoil too. i’m not sure, but i think it is safe to say those attachments make a difference.