Ammo Depots (FOPS Ammo Dump)

(INF3RN0) #1

So I have been becoming greatly annoyed by how little ammo I receive from FOPS. This is partly due to the hud development not being complete, but also most FOPS become so engrossed in what they are doing they tend to not see the endless spamming “AMMO!” in vsay.

Here’s my suggestion…
Add empty depots in key locations of the map accessible to both offense and defense. Allow the FOPS to interact with these depots and deposit their ammo packs into them (earning some XP) and setting their packs back to 0/3 full recharge. The ammo is accessible by any player and expires after X seconds, which then requires refilling by a FOPS.

The goal here is to allow your team’s FOPS to dump his ammo in a known location from time to time so that if he does wander off or has trouble paying attention you can simply run to the depot and resupply if it has been filled.

Thoughts or other suggestions?

(MrFunkyFunk) #2

Fops 03 already has a mobile ammo station, wouldn’t what you suggested kill a bit his unique feature?
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35371-MS17-Gameplay

I’m not sure I see a big difference (cd maybe) with a fops throwing all his packs in one spot. Imo it would encourage (enforce) some specific positioning in strats if they become too important.

(INF3RN0) #3

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;454394]Fops 03 already has a mobile ammo station, wouldn’t what you suggested kill a bit his unique feature?
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35371-MS17-Gameplay[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily imo, but that’s a good point. FOPS3 ability lets you push ammo stations where ever you want where this would be more positioned in set locations. There’s not much difference between the FOPS dropping all his ammo in a pile on the ground and a bin on a wall really, but at least you would know where to look if your FOPS didn’t respond.

(MrFunkyFunk) #4

It could be nice since I sometimes completely forget my ability is back to full again.
If you can both fill the depot and still give some packs where you are without depleting the station or gimping your ability regen it might work for me, and if the stations aren’t too advantageously positionned as not to have one fops do the jobs of two.
Most of all I’d really like a minimap with the possibility to add the icons of current avail medpacks & ammo in the player’s vicinity (or a custom range over the current packs icons to make them stand out more).

(.FROST.) #5

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;454387]So I have been becoming greatly annoyed by how little ammo I receive from FOPS. This is partly due to the hud development not being complete, but also most FOPS become so engrossed in what they are doing they tend to not see the endless spamming “AMMO!” in vsay.

Here’s my suggestion…
Add empty depots in key locations of the map accessible to both offense and defense. Allow the FOPS to interact with these depots and deposit their ammo packs into them (earning some XP) and setting their packs back to 0/3 full recharge. The ammo is accessible by any player and expires after X seconds, which then requires refilling by a FOPS.

The goal here is to allow your team’s FOPS to dump his ammo in a known location from time to time so that if he does wander off or has trouble paying attention you can simply run to the depot and resupply if it has been filled.

Thoughts or other suggestions?[/QUOTE]

I threw as much ammo as I could(even got the “best FOPS” a couple times), but I wouldn’t run across a hot zone, just to drop a couple rounds. Aside from that, FOPS is also supposed to stop the EV and have a little fun for himself. FOPS is not your Ammo-N***a(no ofense). You want something, come and get it(as you’ve suggested it allready with those ammo-dumps). FOPS can’t see anymore who’s low on ammo and who’s not. And btw., V-say spamming is the most annoying thing peeps can do to get something. And I can’t see where the guy is on the field; as you’ve said, the HUD isn’t fully developed yet.

(DB Genome editor) #6

I think we need to see a more final version of the HUD before considering changes like this. Right now you can’t tell who needs ammo, and even if someone calls for it, you have a hard time finding him on the field :frowning:

Edit: Kind of got ninja’ed by Frost there…

(Mustang) #7

Would be nice if ammo packs wouldn’t fade away so quickly, I saw a line of three ammo packs today, ran over them all and received no ammo, each one disappeared factions of a second before I arrived at it.

Voted no because I think the the under-developed HUD are the main causes of this frustration. Fire support have no idea where the guys that need ammo are, guys that need ammo have no idea where the nearest fire support bloke is, no highlighting of players calling for ammo, etc.

There is also the issue that I would go to “the usual place that people drop ammo” and there would be none there, so either the fire support guys were not the usual people that I play with, they don’t know where the usual drop points are or there just wasn’t enough ammo to go around.

The main problem with regards to “ammo” right now is that /kill is the only way to replenish nades, there needs to be an alternative.

(.FROST.) #8

I also voted “no”; not because it’s a bad idea, because it’s not, but because I usually like the dynamic of directly interacting with my teammates. BUT, we need proper HUD indications for that.

(Humate) #9

Context vsay of “ammo dropped” with a pretty icon would be nice.
When I played rambo medic in etqw, I always forced the player that needed stroyent to come to me. They always responded with that command.

Can also be used preemptively; if a FOPS has a really hard time of responding to an ammo request…

(INF3RN0) #10

The HUD will most likely improve the situation, but I just saw this as furthering the dissolve of the simple frustrations of a pub. Something like this wouldn’t intrude on game play or offer advantage, but be more of an artificial means of communication. The only difference is that instead of being in VOIP and having your FOPS say “I dropped ammo in that room” you have it marked on your mini map as an activated resupply depot. FOPS03 will probably be my favored means of resupply in pub just because I don’t have to rely on them to respond to vsays or recognize when someone needs ammo. It won’t be “better” than the other method of resupply, but just much less of a frustration for all players.

The HUD improvements will solve some of the issue, but something like specific activate-able drop locations on the map avoids vsay spam and the absent minded player from bothering everyone. Again you don’t need any of these features in comp because you have direct VOIP comms, but in a pub you need all the opportunity available for the lack of it.

(INF3RN0) #11

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;454398]It could be nice since I sometimes completely forget my ability is back to full again.
If you can both fill the depot and still give some packs where you are without depleting the station or gimping your ability regen it might work for me, and if the stations aren’t too advantageously positionned as not to have one fops do the jobs of two.
Most of all I’d really like a minimap with the possibility to add the icons of current avail medpacks & ammo in the player’s vicinity (or a custom range over the current packs icons to make them stand out more).[/QUOTE]

Ammo packs regen so quickly I don’t think it would ever be a problem.

And Yes I really want to see both marked out on the mini map as well.

(BomBaKlaK) #12

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;454398]It could be nice since I sometimes completely forget my ability is back to full again.
If you can both fill the depot and still give some packs where you are without depleting the station or gimping your ability regen it might work for me, and if the stations aren’t too advantageously positionned as not to have one fops do the jobs of two.
Most of all I’d really like a minimap with the possibility to add the icons of current avail medpacks & ammo in the player’s vicinity (or a custom range over the current packs icons to make them stand out more).[/QUOTE]

ammo station is more than enough

(rapid_shot) #13

Your idea, while not bad, just doesn’t seem necessary. If they can throw them down anywhere, why designate another place for it. But I’m not a fan of ammo stations as it takes out the active participation fops. Ammo / health stations per map is fine in case you don’t have medic / fops and they are out of the way of choke points. I just don’t know why they don’t exist anymore. Also, picking up ammo from dead teammates or enemies should have never been taken out. Some sort of reward for killing someone besides, sarcastic party horn, xp. You were the better player, now you get the reward of their ammo (if its the right type). I loved how in ET you could pick up enemy weapons too, it made me feel like a bad@$$. So that would be a great inclusion as well.

(INF3RN0) #14

The main reason why I didn’t see “FOPS direct participation” as a really big argument against it was because a FOPS can already throw packs randomly on the ground, so throwing all his ammo packs in any location would achieve the same goal. What I think might be an easier alternative than this would be to simply add dropped ammo pack indicators to the mini map rather than to offer the FOPS a set location to drop his ammo packs. You can do much of the same as medic, where in you drop all your packs in a hallway full of teammates and run off alone for a minute. After all you can’t force a Medic or FOPS to do their job or use that technique, so I was initially trying to think of a way to facilitate the action for those that don’t consistently pay attention to their role.

Both HP and Ammo information of teammates need to be much more visibly recognizable for the FOPS as well. Pulsing yellow for both damaged/ammo deficient teammates perhaps from FOPS/Med POV.

(prophett) #15

Also voted no for this reason.

(Kendle) #16

Same here, and same for Medics, they need better HUD indication that a team-mate needs healing / reviving (so, as others have said, reserve judgement until we have a better HUD).

Essentially, the way I see it is, if you’re running out of ammo and you have a F/Ops, you have a problem with team-work, not a problem with the game mechanics.

(INF3RN0) #17

[QUOTE=Kendle;454432]
Essentially, the way I see it is, if you’re running out of ammo and you have a F/Ops, you have a problem with team-work, not a problem with the game mechanics.[/QUOTE]

To me it was a problem with comms not mechanics ie the idea of globally known drop points, but there is probably better ways to do it. In the past few days I’ve spammed vsays, jumped up and down in front of people’s faces until they figured it out, etc. HUD improvements will help, but I still think the easily distracted player will need more to jog their attention. If anything I’d really like player info very visibly prominent for the FOPS and Medic as well so that they know who needs what without having to have someone dance in their face for 5minutes, spam vsays, or write it out in chat.

At the same time it’s just a lot of throwing packs around randomly, which is highly questionable teamwork. Most people want to give you packs or let you know where they are, but there’s no convenient means of doing it currently. Hopefully the HUD stuff does the trick, but I hope it caters to every type of player and every type of situation so that the teamwork part comes down to thought out player choices and not random confused tossing. Lot’s of stuff that is unnecessary (not game changing) for experienced players makes all the difference for those that aren’t. My ideal environment would be to have everyone on live voice comms, but it’s not a realistic expectation so ways to reduce frustrations of communication and information in game is something I’d love to see improved beyond most of our own stipulations.

(Kl3ppy) #18

I voted with No. The reason is the same many mentioned here that the HUD is a subject of changes. Right now its hard to realize that someone needs ammo, also I cant see who asked for ammo via vsay. when this is working prober and there are still those problems with Fops, we can try this because overall I like the idea but now I cant say if its a fops problem or a communication problem.

(.N.E.R.D.) #19

I think so too but the same goes for the medic. BTW. to all the people that always play other classes, don’t flame the ammo/medpack guy cause there have been drastic changes in the hud. Medic doesn’t see you as good on the ground either as before and Fops was already discussed. I wanna add that medics should drop their **** randomly too like the fops so ppl can get it, and for the love of god you know the fast ttk give a pack when you revive someone.

(.FROST.) #20

Maybe the engineer could get an objective like opening allready placed ammo crates wich are strategically scattered all over the maps; but to not make the FOPS redundant in that regard there should only be a very limited number of those crates on each map; maybe one or two, just as a back-up, when your team has not enough FOPS to sufficiently supply the entire team, or if the guy really doesn’t know his job. No matter what, the FOPS should still be able to throw ammo-packs directly. And he(directly) should be your #1 ammo-source.

I liked it, like it was/is in Brink. Soldiers could give you ammo directly, but if there was no soldier available, you could still go to the next command-post and get it yourself. Best system imo.