What I mean is this, when you’re firing at longer ranges, trying to tapfire and land headshots, seems not as consistent as it should be.
I find often times I will still miss due to the spread being so wide, and while aiming down sights does help, I still wonder if maybe there’s something splash can do to make the guns a little more consistent.
[quote=“Szakalot;197434”]this isnt CS
ADS gives you perfect accuracy at the cost of recoil[/quote]
Especially with the Mumble. Sweet.
Like Szakalot said, this isn’t csgo. You are supposed to spray with every weapon here (except snipers and shotguns and possibly revolvers).
Also the damage of weapons is way too low for tapshots to be effective anyways, but buffing the accuracy of revolvers and deagle could be nice
[quote=“Szakalot;197434”]this isnt CS
ADS gives you perfect accuracy at the cost of recoil[/quote]
That’s your argument? Is this not a competitive shooter?
Is the argument of this isn’t CS really good enough to justify the weapons not being more consistent than they should be?
This isn’t CoD either, this a team focused shooter with matchups and firefights being the main meat of the game. There should be as little RNG in there as possible, and each gun should feel as natural to use as possible.
Saying we can ads isn’t the point, especially given this game is so predominantly hipfire.
the RNG is involved in every single shot fired. yoube been pushing for fixed recoil patterns which sound horrible in a fast-movement game like this.
i dont want to build muscle memory for each gun independently to compensate for the recoil.
especially if the recoil is not represented by crosshair movement (in DB, the recoil at least is making your crosshair move, so you dont have to do abysmal ‘aim at opponents feet’ ). i prefer the present system wherr high TTK and high weapon accuracy promote consistent tracking while preventing single-handed rambo moments with the increases spread over prolonged fights.
having said that, i wouldnt mind if all recoil was gone, and we’d go back to spread control alone.
in any case, since RNG is involved in every shot, both in recoil and spread, and TTK is high, the RNG becomes statistically irrelevant. yes - maybe you got a lucky shot in cause the crosshair kicked in the direction of the enemy - in large scheme of things a single lucky shot will matter little. and luck has that going for it that it doesnt favor anyone specifically.
surely you realise that CS guns also have spread: many weapons are awfully inaccurate at 10< bullets sprays, irrespective of recoil control.
there are a few guns in the game that promote tap firing to a degree (revolvers and grandeur mostly) but tapfiring just doesnt make sense for most guns at the TTK we have now. you either have too much alpha damage, or too little DPS - most guns are simply too accurate atm. to make a tap-fire gun viable. at long ranges you should use ADS, thats whats it for
“this isnt CS
ADS gives you perfect accuracy at the cost of recoil”
“That’s your argument? Is this not a competitive shooter?”
And how exactly did you go from ‘this isnt cs’ to this not being a competitive shooter, not to mention that having better tapfire will not make this game any more competitive.
it could be better, but i am guessing it isnt because of balance issues like sniping sniper with crotzini, now you can but only for a short amount of time, but you can still use croshair for reduced movement, but its only my guess
[quote=“Szakalot;197651”]the RNG is involved in every single shot fired. yoube been pushing for fixed recoil patterns which sound horrible in a fast-movement game like this.
i dont want to build muscle memory for each gun independently to compensate for the recoil.
especially if the recoil is not represented by crosshair movement (in DB, the recoil at least is making your crosshair move, so you dont have to do abysmal ‘aim at opponents feet’ ). i prefer the present system wherr high TTK and high weapon accuracy promote consistent tracking while preventing single-handed rambo moments with the increases spread over prolonged fights.
having said that, i wouldnt mind if all recoil was gone, and we’d go back to spread control alone.
in any case, since RNG is involved in every shot, both in recoil and spread, and TTK is high, the RNG becomes statistically irrelevant. yes - maybe you got a lucky shot in cause the crosshair kicked in the direction of the enemy - in large scheme of things a single lucky shot will matter little. and luck has that going for it that it doesnt favor anyone specifically.
surely you realise that CS guns also have spread: many weapons are awfully inaccurate at 10< bullets sprays, irrespective of recoil control.
there are a few guns in the game that promote tap firing to a degree (revolvers and grandeur mostly) but tapfiring just doesnt make sense for most guns at the TTK we have now. you either have too much alpha damage, or too little DPS - most guns are simply too accurate atm. to make a tap-fire gun viable. at long ranges you should use ADS, thats whats it for[/quote]
Let me make things clearer for you
I want to reward players more for accurate controlled fire, particuarily with guns like the M4, Timik, Dreiss, and Grandeur, these are rifles are they not? So why is accurate tap shooting not as reliable as it could be? All it would take to fix it is reducing how long it would take, for your spread to return to it’s initial starting value.
It shouldn’t be a luck of RNG that determines whether my next shot with the Grandeur will be the headshot I need to get the kill, even if I wait a sixth, fifth, quarter, or third of a second before firing my next shot. It should be reliable enough so I can build a habit, if not, then certain guns need better sights than they have currently.
And as far as recoil patterns go, we already have fixed spread patterns for the shotguns, a / recoil pattern for the M4 and Timik, and the Grandeur and Dreiss literally kick straight up. So why the rest of the guns do not have patterns as well, it doesn’t make sense to me, especially if a gun has a certain range on it.
If my gun has a range, of 12 meters before falloff begins, and 24 meters is where falloff ends, then my max possible spread should still be accurate up to 12 meters, whereas the initial starting value for spread, should be at 24 meters. There should be enough room in there for tap firing to be rewarded, not punished because you’re not resorting to spraying, or aiming down sights (which will get you killed in a tight situation).
The point is, why on Earth would you even tapfire and deal 28 damage or whatever when you can simply ADS and have zero spread? I wouldn’t tapfire even if first shot accuracy recovery was instant. My only complaint is that some guns have crappy sights that hinder ADS.
@Dawnrazor The good thing about crappy iron sights is, that you can balance guns with that aswell. Just imagine a grandeur with a 1x/2x scope instead of their shitty iron sights…
Why the fuck do you want ADS to be useless?
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;197771”]So why the rest of the guns do not have patterns as well, it doesn’t make sense to me, especially if a gun has a certain range on it.
https://becomingriflemen.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/figure29.jpg[/quote]
Because if guns like the Crotzni, the Stark, and other such weapons have a predictable recoil pattern then weapons like the M4 would not be viable.
Okay, fine, some weapons should have predictable recoil spreads. Things like the Hochfir would definitely use such a gimmick. But stuff like the KEK-10 doesn’t need such crap to make them as powerful as they should be.
Here’s what I think should be buffed to have a predictable recoil pattern or predictable accuracy:
M4A1
Timik (only in the first 2 bullets, then requires half a second delay before it gets predictable again)
Hochfir (make it a high-mobility M4 please, that would actually be fucking cool)
SMG-9 (as a high-mobility Timik; first 5 shots only)
Grandeur (first two shots only)
Everything else? Learn to control your recoil at medium or long range.
Why the @$!# do you want ADS to be useless?
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;197771”]So why the rest of the guns do not have patterns as well, it doesn’t make sense to me, especially if a gun has a certain range on it.
https://becomingriflemen.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/figure29.jpg[/quote]
Because if guns like the Crotzni, the Stark, and other such weapons have a predictable recoil pattern then weapons like the M4 would not be viable.
Okay, fine, some weapons should have predictable recoil spreads. Things like the Hochfir would definitely use such a gimmick. But stuff like the KEK-10 doesn’t need such crap to make them as powerful as they should be.
Here’s what I think should be buffed to have a predictable recoil pattern or predictable accuracy:
M4A1
Timik (only in the first 4 bullets, then requires half a second delay before it gets predictable again)
Hochfir (make it a high-mobility M4 please, that would actually be @$!# cool)
SMG-9 (as a high-mobility Timik; first 5 shots only)
Grandeur (first two shots only)
Everything else? Learn to control your recoil at medium or long range.[/quote]
What recoil is there to control on certain guns? It’s entirely random, and you’re not even taking spread and range into account.
Spread should match up with a guns range, if my maximum range is say, 20 meters, then the first shot when I fire, should at least be able to hit someone in the head reliably up to the distance.
And if you have random recoil on SMGs as a means to balance them, ok fine, I’ll give you that, but why do the LMGs have it?
Why does the Grandeur and Dreiss not have more controllable spread? If I wait between shots, I should be able to consistently pop someone’s head at the maximum range, I shouldn’t be screwed over due to cone of fire being way too wide.
My point here is pretty simple, if we’re trying to make this game a competitive shooter, alright great, then start balancing it like one. Remove as much randomness as possible, cause that randomness dilutes the skill ceiling for the game, and just makes more casual since it doesn’t matter how good you are, you only have a x% chance of actually hitting what you’re aiming at.
And ADSing would not be useless, you’re talking about being able to fire your gun at the maximum RoF without any reduction in spread, all you sacrifice is speed.
If the guns had better sights I guarantee you’d see people use it a lot more.
(I did say that the Grandeur should have the first two or fewer shots be predictable.)
One of the aspects of this game is recoil. Some weapons really should have less recoil than they do right now, and have predictable spreads.
Some weapons would be completely overpowered if they had predictable recoil.
That even includes the LMGs. I even think that the Timik should not have predictable recoil actually, considering increased DPS and less damage dropoff.