All The Issues & Concerns I Have...


(PixelTwitch) #1


NOT FINISHED!

So I have managed to be able to set myself aside 6 hours to work on this post, I have just started off HELIX on Netflix at the same time so depending on how good it is, this could be a fairly long or fairly short post. What I want to focus on in this post, is all the things that could be improved, nothing is going to be out of bounds on this one. Before we get into this, I want to prefix this entire post by saying that none of this is prioritised, so just because I mention something does not mean I believe that it is more important then something I just skim over or don’t mention at all. I will also be making suggestions like normal, please don’t focus on the suggestions as much as the reasons to why I am making suggestions in the first place. I’m pretty sure we all have a million and one great ideas and dismissing concerns due to not liking an alternative suggestion can really throw off a discussion. If you think that something I list as a concern is not really a problem, then please feel free to say so, all I ask is that you try and explain to me why you disagree as there is more than likely a few things I have not considered and/or misunderstand. Anyway, let’s get into it…

PREFIX V2: Believe me, I know that I come across very negative… I simply find it easier to verbalise things I dislike rather then praise things I do like. Obviously I would not be here making these posts and spending my time here if I did not like lots what we already have.

GENERAL GAMEPLAY
This section is mainly about the result of many mechanics and systems that effect the way the game plays for the players…

How We Role
Recently we have been having a lot of talk about the idea of roles and how they are evolving from the classes before them. Currently this is one of the flimsiest aspects of gameplay in my opinion. Dirty Bomb does a very poor job of both communicating and facilitating your supposed role. The result of this is that due to the lack of “stuff to do”, all Mercs, regardless of expected roles, fall back to solo damage dealing. Not only is there a lack of role related activities but more importantly there is a lack of accountability and expectation. The biggest expectation currently falls on that of the Field Ops, mainly due to their unique ability to provide ammo, AoE damage and burst damage onto the EV and other repairable objects. Not only does the Field Ops counter (well not counter but reverse) the engineers but they also overlap and improve on their side objective destruction capabilities. Even though the Field Ops have both the easiest and one of the most effective roles, certain aspects of the design clash with the roles team play potential. High weapon damage, unlimited ammo, xp farm potential and current augments make them the perfect solo role. Luckily a good lone Field Ops can be a credit to his team overall but giving them the teams most valued resource feels like a massive contradiction.

When it comes to the other roles in Dirty Bomb, we see that the lenient buffers between them can actually result in even the engineers believing it is not their responsibility to repair the EV or plant the C4. The combat effectiveness of certain medics is resulting in them preferring to fight rather then revive. Due to the random spawn locations and relative speed to more damage centric roles, you will often see the medics being first into battle with backup from the soldiers rather than the other way around. The most selfish role currently has got to be that of recon and the only role that really enforces team work is that of the soldiers, however this is more of a requirement from the soldiers so relies on your teams cooperation.

Now, its safe to say we are going to be seeing many more and varied Mercs in future and some of this could improve. Saying that, until we see better communication, incentive and requirement for all the roles, we are not going to get that focused team based shooter experience that many of us long for. Please understand that I am not saying that roles are not advantageous, because they are. What I am saying is that in a public environment I can only control my own actions and due to certain leniencies, it becomes very hard to trust, anticipate and expect anything from your fellow team mates. If these roles are not working now, when they are still basically classes, I see only bigger issues in future when a more role orientated Merc pool falls into place.

Do You Like It Tight?
Kinaesthetics are one of the most important factors of any first person shooters, especially one that moves as fast as Dirty Bomb does. To be fair, compared to most other Free 2 Play shooters, Dirty Bomb ranks quite highly when it comes to its kinaesthetics. Though quite highly does not really cut it in a game that requires so much accuracy, speed and timing. I want to avoid talking about performance right now but I do want to talk the general feel and more importantly the reliability and consistency. Things like the delayed reaction on a forward sprint crouch, harsh stutter on long jump landing, clunky throw/launch physics, poor collision and much more all add up to a distinctly unpolished experience.

Now, I would hope that many of these things are more related to ongoing development rather then just sloppy mechanics. My only concern is we are getting closer and closer to a lift on the NDA and open/less-closed beta and hopefully we are not a million miles away from the game being opened to the masses, and its all too easy to put these kind of things on the “to-do” pile and never get around to it or not get around to it until it is too late. There are literally hundreds of tiny glitches, inconsistencies and jank that break immersion and cause frustration that could likely be easily fixed. Like I said, I hope these are just beta nuances but I feel its very important to keep bringing up. I suppose in an ideal world you would have a two man sub team that just works on these because I see so many that I find it really hard to believe you will be able to squish a decent percentage before the influx of new players. I will likely do a “Jank” post soon listing the hundreds of mini-bugs I encounter regularly… Obviously its a lot of work and since I need to make a living, I don’t know when I will get this done. Hopefully within the next 30 days.

Are You A Noob?
I would like to think that the majority of us guys here on the forums play the game at a fairly decent level. So I think it becomes too easy to ignore how the game is going to feel for them people at the lower end of the skill curve. I often hear people talking about how the game should not be dumbed down or people should be expected to learn/improve. The one I hear most often is they just play engineer or medic and get on with it. My biggest concern with the learn/improve argument is that unlike most other modern first person shooters, Dirty Bomb relies much heavier on natural skill then it does acquired skill. When it comes to the be medic or engineer or GTFO, I need to ask, where is the incentive? Due to how the game has removed its class specific objectives and overall play style, we have adapted our own play styles to compensate (get the most out of the new rule set). Normally when telling someone to play A or B roles you would at least try and compensate a little for their lower ability level. Simply running towards them for health or ammo, trying to defend them when they go to plant and stick with them on a push. In Dirty Bomb, that is really not the case any more. I suppose what I am getting at here, is simply, why should they even try to improve or just be the teams slave? Is their enjoyment not important?

Now what I am about to say is likely going to bring me some flak and disagreement, however, it needs to be said. While the community is so against embracing anything other than pure natural skill, we are going to continue just chasing potential new players away. Even worse, we risk chasing away potentially great players who simply lack a couple of the many skills normally required to play first person shooters effectively. Bringing up the potency of a few more skills could broaden the player base dramatically, right now a huge chunk of the game revolves around little more than tracking aim and knowing when to press Q. The players with perfect timing, great movement and top notch game sense will still be out played by almost any old idiot that possesses better tracking aim. In my eyes, this is a massive shame and is going to likely be one of the biggest problems when it comes to player retention and the high skilled player base. This will shrink any potential eSports scene as any increases in team skill will likely be a very slow process. Often this is a side effect of a games skill base being overly based in physical dexterity over mental dexterity (or visa versa). This is a balance that Dirty Bomb in its current state, lacks greatly. Increasing the effectiveness of tactics, movement, other forms of aim and more could help balance the the skill ceiling/peak. For every player that drops off in effectiveness (no longer plays at the same high level) many more would become viable due to the traits that until that point the game had not taken advantage of. In the end this could create a much larger competitive player base and better spread the overall player base much more evenly across skill ranges.

This is not about making things simpler… Actually, most of the changes required would increase the potential for mastery in many areas. What I think we need to accept is that easier does not equal simpler and visa versa. Just because the goal would be to help certain groups of players with certain core skills, play better, does not mean that the game got easier…

GAME AESTHETICS/STYLE VS GAMEPLAY
This section is focused on the idea of the games visuals in terms of limitations set by the gameplay itself.

Light VS Dark
I’m pretty sure that there is still quite a few of you out there that do not realise that Dirty Bomb has light and dark skin variations to indicate who is on what team. This is currently masked by the red and blue shimmer on the players. The biggest problem with using the light and dark variation is three fold. 1, it greatly limits the potential skin variation due to shade limitations and consistency. 2, requires more content to be created. 3, there is a much higher chance that players will dislike skin due to a single variation. All in all this just does not seem to be either efficient or desirable.

If we see a draft mode in future then maybe we could potentially see the end of the light and dark variations and team colour shimmer. I would love to see a semi bright process on character models in the future so we can see what the game looks like when the skins stand out bright and proud. In basic terms, I feel that right now you are doing an awful lot more work than you need to, especially when its barely noticeable in game whatsoever.

QUICK SUGGESTION If the light and dark variations must stay, then surely in future, it would make sense to allow players to choose both a dark and light skin per loadout card. That way, at least you manage to avoid the problem of people avoiding any given skin simply because they do not like one of the variations.

Skins VS Speed VS FoV
Some of the skins in Dirty Bomb look pretty sexy to be honest… However the only time you really see them is while waiting for the initial spawn at the beginning of the round. The games speed turns them into an out and out blur during left and right spam fire fights. The unreal engines post processing or anti aliasing turns them into a blur even at close range. Higher FoV values render the already slim character models, tiny. Even when players are rolling on the ground waiting to be gibbed they often contort, move and lay in ways that obscure the skins. The problem here is that I was under the impressions that the skins where going to be one of the main ways to monetise the game. If I am unable to see the skins and know that others have the same problem, why would I bother spending money on them?

QUICK SUGGESTION Replace the third person camera when you are waiting to be revived or have been freshly gibbed with a first person alternative. This means you get a much better view of players running to gib you and your own team when dying near your team mates. You could also add a podium style camera flyby at the end of a round before loading the next map/lobby. Replace the into cinematic with a fly over of your spawn and the enemies spawn after you have played a given map 10 times or more. Finally you could look into ways of giving the players the ability to view a players current loaded squad in the lobby screen, profile page and friends list.

Dot To Dot
With attachments coming soon I think we should have a look at the current weapon sights. Going off how the new SMG looks with the green dot, the bolt action sniper and a few other automatic weapons. It is becoming obvious that in general the size of the recital is much larger than it needs to be or even should be. I find the green dot sight obscures your vision too much. This shows an inconsistency between other aspects of game design and the current implementation. It has been made clear from both Splash Damages and the communities refusal to budge on increasing the aim down sights effectiveness at closer ranges, that it is supposed to be reserved for long range engagements. The current design makes the sights feel more like they are designed for close range engagements. The high vertical field of view combined with high speed and long range engagements all clash with the reticle size. there are however a couple of decent examples of sights in the game also. Sawbones SMG, Proxy Secondary and Arty Primary are all pretty good.

QUICK SUGGESTION You could give players the option to change the ADS weapon model FoV (maintaining the real FoV). Obviously, you could also simply redo all the reticles and iron sight…

Knee Of The Curve
whether it be pipes, CDA skins or curved walls, travelling around the environments can feel seriously clunky. The speed makes travelling over narrow parts of the geometry fiddly, the wall jumping off of curved surfaces and even knowing what is and is not possible a much harder task than it should be. As well as what the game does not allow you to do, I also think there are many examples of being able to do what you should not, like walking across tiny ledges. I will talk about invisible walls and stuff later as that comes more under the mapping section. I want to be clear that the movement system is actually pretty good and would be even better if it was better mapped around. I just feel a few simple changes could drastically increase the reliability of many jumps and that would result in wider usage. There are so many great jumps that are possible but just not very reliable, mainly due to the crazy accuracy and timing required. This increases the risk associated with such jumps and is resulting in people simply not even attempting to use them in the majority of cases.

QUICK SUGGESTION Slightly increasing the deceleration and decreasing acceleration could have huge benefits to movement accuracy without much effecting the general feel. 20% increase on stopping speed and 20% decrease on acceleration speed (left and right only) could be a good place to start…

THE MAPS
Here, we will look at some of the problems that many of us seem to have with the maps.

The Meat Grinder
There are many reasons why the game suffers from a feeling of almost constant meat grind and the maps are just one of them. I would say the maps more facilitate it, rather than being the main cause of it. That said, some changes could help mitigate some of these symptoms. Most maps suffer from bottlenecks caused by multiple routes entering the primary battlegrounds at in a narrow angle and at approximately equal distances, thus allowing a cluster of defenders to fight within a tight grouping while covering all routes at the same time. Like many other issues I have and will mention, this is something made much worse in a round where the attackers lack quick and direct communication. Thankfully, in public matches, defenders seem to get impatient and break ranks often meaning that its not impossible to break.

QUICK SUGGESTION Widen the battlegrounds, pay more attention to visible angles onto the objectives and provide better cover for the attackers.

The Z Plane
Verticality is something that has become a bit of a buzz word again recently. This is something that Dirty Bomb does quite well to be honest. However there are a couple of problems, mainly due to the need to maintain line of sight with the sky box as I will go into in the next section. Two other issues I have are, the way you run up and down ramps and the player third person model when shooting up high and down low. Ramps are most likely quite an awkward thing to address, because the game is so fast when you see people sprint up stairs from a side on vantage point, it can look a little bit silly. As well as looking silly, the players become very hard to track. The steeper the ramp the more obvious and silly it becomes to watch. When it comes to shooting high and low, the player model does not seem to always sync very well with the first person view. Three months ago, some friends and myself decided to test this out on a couple of spots in Victoria. It turned out that you could pretty much see the full head of Sawbones when looking up towards the balcony before the Sawbones could even see your scalp. I should also mention that the results changed with the Mercs. This is only one example of how the high vs low fights feel, truthfully I feel the bigger issue is how it feels to shoot up at someone. Due to most of the geometry being quite thick, you end up with very poor visibility onto the people with the height advantage. Also, due to the enlarged hit boxes, shooting from up high gives a little more of an advantage then you would first expect. I am not saying that people up high should not have an advantage, simply that though map design it would be a good idea to try and make it a little less strong and hopefully enable more of it as a result.

QUICK SUGGESTION Allow weapons to do full damage though some glass (railings), this would mean its there is less of a cover advantage along with the height advantage. Also try looking at effecting the third person models height more depending on the angle the player is looking at. For example, the player model should look a tiny bit shorter when looking down and taller when looking up. This should lower the chance of dying to someone not physically visible to you when dealing with height, ledges and cover.

Inside Out
As mentioned in the previous section, line of site with the sky box needs to be maintained in order for some of the Mercs to remain effective. This has wide reaching effects on the map design overall and not all of which I personally see as positive. Underground is a prime example of some of the issues faced when maps are mostly based indoors. On the other hand, Indoor maps seem to allow for some really nice variation in design. Londons underground rivers and tube systems, Victorian buildings and high rises all lose viability. Personally, I find that a massive shame…

[I]QUICK SUGGESTION While there are still only a few Mercs that require the sky box line of sight, start looking for ways to give additional functionality to them as compensation for more indoor areas. These abilities do not need to be damage dealing but they do need to add value to a team. [/I]

Victoria
Mostly a good map really… Unfortunately like many other maps, some of the best designed areas are underused and it can feel very much like a meat grinder from time to time. The biggest issue I feel with it is that the objectives, both primary and side, feel pretty dull. I also believe that there needs to be either a bigger spread on the second objective or a third objective added (alternatively you could add a new first objective). I really like how you promote many wide/side on engagements such as the pipes to the office from the attacker spawn, the balcony overlooking the forward spawn and most of the second objective area. A team should not be expected to attack head on in a game that has such accuracy and the height advantages mentioned in a previous section. Dirty Bomb often falls into this trap and so does Victoria in places, but it is nice to see examples of sections being designed in such a way to allow crossing of paths without a clash. Honestly, I hold them simple pipes across to the office as an example of good map design. This is partly due to the ability to reach the pipes a number of ways, including trick jumps. There are other locations on the map where this is also true, however after speaking to people at Splash Damage, it seems highly likely they will be removed in future patches. Having played a little bit of the Team Deathmatch version of Victoria, I would hope that maybe, some of the second objective structures will be brought over to Stopwatch/Objective mode. You could then move the defenders spawn onto the train tracks behind the second objective and open up both rooms for objectives while giving defenders decent access.

Underground
Underground actually has the potential to be one of the best maps for public play. No, I am not kidding when I say that. While you could call it liner, you could also call it streamlined and for that reason its one of the easiest maps to play as a new player. I also believe that by adding a couple of side routes, changing up the objectives a little and possibly adding a third objective, you could end up with a map loved by some and even more hated by others. Kind of like Metro 2033 from Battlefield 3 and Nuke Town from Call of Duty Black Ops 1 & 2. I remember seeing some of the update videos about a possible outdoor section as the final objective. I feel this would improve the map on a number of levels. After doing some more research and looking at some of the echo date provided, it is becoming clear that there is a connection between the difficulty of a maps final objective and second attacker / Objective mode attackers win rate. Underground has one of the easiest final objectives to attack due to distance, angles, side objectives and ticket barriers. Also due to the roof blocking line of sight with the sky box, certain Mercs are simply not on an equal footing with others. Personally, I do not know if this is really a problem but either way, opening up a third outside objective (like the areas of London effected by the Crossrail project.), will solve both issues. This is without even mentioning that there is something magical about the huge construction works that litter London.

Bridge
The final objective is something that I am going to skip over as with any luck it will be replaced with the final objective from Bridge Alt. When it comes to the first objective, its not really too bad, just needs a little more refinement. Waiting until the movement system is a little more complete is probably wise as Bridge has some of the strangest wall angles and random objects as cover. I also think the EVs position should be slightly forward to nerf the effectiveness of mines and turrets in that position while keeping it as a decent battleground. I actually like the barricade in the middle of the map, I just really dislike the positioning and the mechanics behind raising/lowering it. I feel moving the objective to near the van near the bullring would make more sense. Turning a narrow choke point into 3 spread points for an attack with an open roof. I would not have it so ability damage can lower the objective either… I am in two minds about how it would play as a literal objective actually that cannot be reversed. That area of the map is well designed really… Its just the objective itself that is not.

Train Yard
I see Train Yard as the generic map that is neither loved or hated. Visually, the map lacks that defining stroke that seems present in all other Dirty Bomb maps. While compared to other maps, graphically, Train Yard feels much more accomplished. Yet due to its lack of consistency compared to other maps, it will always feel a little out of place. I personally feel that the biggest reason for the striking difference between this and other maps is the lighting. However, the visual differences are not the only thing I feel that makes the map feel so generic. It does nothing better then other maps but at the same time its got nothing awful either. While I do not believe that the map will be highly played in public play, I do believe that it is highly likely to be one of the most played in a competitive setting. Balance is one thing the map does well, probably better than about any other map. I would still like to see one of the C4 objectives removed and maybe a side objective for the second or third objective. Hopefully with some changes to the visuals the map could fall more in line with the rest but only time will tell.

Dome
I am going to keep this one quite short because I feel maybe its just one of them maps I will always hate. We also know that we are likely going to see a lot of changes. Right now, my biggest concerns are the first objective (all of it) and the idea of having to only do 1 of the 2 second objectives. Small things that frustrate me include very long travel distances for all objectives, useless side doors and huge number of windows/angles to be shot from.

Battersea
Obviously we don’t know too much about this map. What little I do know tells me that the first objective is too defender centric and simply not fun to attack on. The later objectives feel like a real meat grind but the angles are quite enjoyable to fight on. Lot of work to do here.

Back 2 The Future
I feel and hope that a lot of lessons have been learnt during the last couple of years of development. A lot has changed from when it was a much simpler game. The surface has barely been scratched when it comes to all the possible neat locations around London that would suit the Dirty Bomb treatment. Let’s also not forget the rest of the world as it was teased at PAX that the first season would be set in London and “who knows” after that. When it comes to lessons, its becoming clear that each map needs more progression, be that from better more involved side objectives. Wider battlegrounds that give options to the attacking team while causing weakness to the defenders. Cut down on travel time by enabling a push and pull progression on the objectives and overall, making them much more dynamic and alive. I think its safe to say that even a bad game can be enjoyable on fun maps and that a great game can be horrendous on poor maps. While I do not believe that the maps are the biggest problem in Dirty Bomb, I do agree that they are far from perfect and one of the aspects that will likely be blamed for a long time to come. However, until certain changes are made to the core gameplay and systems, I still fear that it is going to be nearly impossible and highly inefficient to create maps that live up the the communities expectations. That said, I see massive amounts of potential and believe that Splash Damage have what it takes to rectify these problems given time, feedback and support. Only time will tell, but I know in my heart that a lot of Dirty Bombs potential rests on this alone.

THE WEAPONRY
Now we will look at the weapons of Dirty Bomb, attachments, balance, spread and much more…

Let The Arrow Of Your Vengeance Fly True
Accuracy always has and always will be one of the most valued skills in any first person shooter. This is something I don’t feel that many people would try and argue against, However I also believe that when you pull that trigger when you are confident in your aim, your target should eat damage. No one questions the recoil and/or spread in games such as Call of Duty or Battlefield because them games never communicate anything other then randomness when not looking down sights (apart from at extreme close ranges with certain weapons). On the other hand, games like Counter Strike and Quake use direct shots or predictable recoil that teaches you that as long as you do exactly what your supposed to, your will land your shots. Now there is no rule written to say that every game needs to fall under one or the other categories, however the reason that the majority of games do choose/try and fall into one of the two is because simply, it makes sense.

Dirty Bomb on the other hand is one of them games that seems to embrace the ideals of true accuracy yet feels distinctly random. At very close range and while aiming down sights it does seem to nail that feeling for the most part. at medium to longer ranges however, that starts to become less true. The game does a poor job of communicating the current bullet spread, is difficult to aim due to sloppy animation blending and the highly variable and constant recoil shake. Overall I feel that when I fail to hit my target, its not always my fault. Sure this could likely be seen as me making excuses for my own failings and that could well be the case, however, when so many people feel exactly the same, surely there is a problem, right? I am certainly not saying that its not fair or that it is indeed random, simply it removes a players confidence in the mechanics and thus removes fun and replaces it with frustration.

QUICK SUGGESTION If you insist on keeping the same style of spread/recoil mechanics I would say try sightly increasing initial spread at the same time as decreasing end spread while increasing the player hitbox size. The real problem I still see when thinking about that however is that with Friendly Fire on we would likely see much more of it. If you are just concerned about consistency either massively increase or decrease spread till it is no longer in this awkward place. Alternatively you could move the spread to a more predictable pattern like a pseudo Counter Strike style so that physical compensation is a possibility.

NOT FINISHED!

EDIT: HELIX was pretty good guys, watched 13 episodes in 24 hours. Now I have started Marco Polo and already 4 episodes in… Also great! BOOOO YA!


(fzl) #2

nice post… but i think sd will not hear the feedback from us oldschool fps players…they made her own thing…so sad…


(Volcano) #3

//youtu.be/eVTXPUF4Oz4


(ToonBE) #4

I respect all the efforts you put in giving feedback and I agree with you… although aim is ofcourse important in an FPS… I think they should introduce class specific objectives… a medic cannot plant or defuse etc


(RasteRayzeR) #5

Though I’m sure there are interesting elements in this post, cba to read it because it’s way too long. Sorry


(PixelTwitch) #6

haha, not to worry, once its complete I will add a contents page so anyone that wants to see my opinion and feedback about a certain thing can easily find what they are looking for. I am trying to header everything so that its easy to read the stuff that interests you. Most sections are self contained.


(Smooth) #7

Thanks for putting the time into this, some very good points :slight_smile:


(Sun_Sheng) #8

Nice Post :slight_smile:

Well, i should preface by saying that I think a large part of DB is broken so in that context it makes defining exactly what is or isn’t right/wrong with a role quite difficult.

Field Ops:

FO is a good example of that in so far as I think his ability to supply massive amounts of ammo would potentially need to be cut down to 3 packs before recharge kicks in. This would make people more dependant on each other and encourage greater teamplay. At the same time, some of the weapons can run out of ammo so quickly, that you would need to address that before changing the ammo-drop rate. Why do we run out of ammo so quickly? Gibbing is broken so you can use nearly a full clip just to gib one player. Use knife? Sometimes, but as a reviviing/support med i’m backing up and gibbing, I shouldn’t be running off to knife random corpses.

I’m digressing, but that is the reason it’s not always easy or straightforward to explain the thinking behind ideas about what’s right and wrong.

Going back to FO, and personal opinion is the damage are from the airstrike needs to be increased. It’s still possible to launch airstrikes into crowded areas and come up with nothing but a toffee crisp wrapper. There also needs to be a change to the warning marker. Currently it shows the direction of the strike and that needs to removed as it’s too much of a giveaway and makes the strike harmless in most circumstances apart from EV killing.

Regards the other roles/classes: Agreed. I could list many things that I think are wrong with the individual mers, but you didn’t, so I won’t. Suffice to say it is as you state, no dependence on each other and everyone playing as individuals in a game of TDM that moves to different areas at random intervals and for no apparent reason.

Kinaesthetics: Agreed

Additionally I feel the game movement is slow it’s really hard sometimes to get the adrenaline flowing. The only time I feel the game moving at close to the right speed is with FOV set to 100 and using proxy with bat out. Everything else feels slow and clunky and (bearing in mind i’m an old bugger with hardly any hair) like the merc can’t react as quickly as my thoughts. When you hit a panic moment, think “i’ll rush to cover behind that wall!!!” and your merc waddles across like he’s going for a walk in the park, it doesn’t help you feel like you’re in a war zone and just adds to the general frustration.

Nabjes

On this, my thoughts are basically ‘How hard can it be?!’. The game isn’t rocket science, far from it. The only way to simplify it further would result in even more team deathmatch. My thinking behind that is simply that the pre-requisite of any fps is an ability to poaint and shoot or die. The better you get at that, the longer you stay alive. If you aren’t a complete nabje then you should bring that into every new game you play and then the only thing left to do is learn the mechanics of the game, find yourself a role, etc, etc. At the moment, you can pick up any merc and play tdm which is the usual way you learn i:e play tdm, watch what happens, understand. If people play the game, see mercs throwing airstrikes, reviving, planting, etc, and can’t work out what to do, they probably need help of a professional nature.

Regards discouragement in going through that process, then we’re again back to all the other things that are wrong with DB such as lack of teamplay. I remember when I was learning the engineer role in ET (I sucked, too much Rambo :stuck_out_tongue: ) and what gave me the opportunity to learn, was basically that the game was focussed in such a way that people played the objective. Because of that, I could hide out of the way and stay alive waiting for my chance for glory, or I could try to rush in and get a lucky plant off. Through that, I learned. With the current TDM mode in full swing, it’s that which makes it unplayable for beginners.

Case in point: The server clearance from a match I played yesterday where we’re out numbered and airstrikes are being thrown into spawn so the defence then go into “Defend Our Spawn” mode and get battered and leave, the more experienced get out of spawn and get battered and angry, the rest just die often.

Sort the map design and the teamplay out and there will be no need for the dumbing down of the game by things such as anti-airstrike deployables, etc, etc.

Skins: Agreed

Reticles, ads, etc:

Agreed, currently I feel a lot of the weapons I use suffer from a restriction of view when used in ads. As soon as recoil kicks in, you lose sight of the target. That could be down to me needing better control of the recoil and my aiming, but random swapping between mercs where you get used to one type of recoil, can make it difficult for quite a while when you load up a new merc. Black Ops 2 handled this rather nicely and I can’t remember ever feeling myself lost when swapping from one smg to another.

Maps: Don’t get me started . … but you did :wink:

Too small, too restrictive, everything funneling into a single killing zone, no or limited options for creativity, pointless spawns like the one on terminal which you capture, and then spawn half way down the road, at an approximately equal distance to travel as the defenders have, thus making the wall objective no easier or harder to plant than it was before. A decent defence is entrenched and out of the way and with comms it would make the wall almost impenetrable i:e one or two spotters backed up by a reviving med, then any time someone goes to plant, in comes the artillery and the airstrikes and the rifle nades, all from behind the comfort of the wall. It would make the wall on supply depot seem incredibly simple, because at least with that map you also had two sides to attack and split the defenders.

Maps in general i’ll save for another post when I have more time.


(spookify) #9

I am in the same boat.

I might take a look once the content page is up but it sounds like everything is going to flip on its head with the news this week so I will hold of both on reading and playing until the HUGE news and the next patch


(Mustang) #10

I thought it was called big news, not HUGE, easy on the old hype-train. :wink:


(BomBaKlaK) #11

Meh … whatever they do, just wait and see first … usually there is more bad news than good ones …


(potty200) #12

The BIG NEWS is that maps are all complete and will not get any more changes before release.


(spookify) #13

HA! TROLL!!!

The HUGE news is spookify won best in T-Shirt competition! And the BIG news is all Gingers that play DB will be flown to LA to hang out with MISS Murder at the Soulless Ginger Convention Center! (To bad I am getting Married in May if you know what I mean) :wink:


(INF3RN0) #14

Easy on the caps my little ginger princess.


(Glottis-3D) #15

ha, nice =)
and while we thought there is no textures on Dome, the thing is…every thing just covered with volcano ashes (infamous Londarbunga volcano), it alrdy has dem textures!!


(ToonBE) #16

[QUOTE=spookify;516840]HA! TROLL!!!

The HUGE news is spookify won best in T-Shirt competition! And the BIG news is all Gingers that play DB will be flown to LA to hang out with MISS Murder at the Soulless Ginger Convention Center! (To bad I am getting Married in May if you know what I mean) :wink:[/QUOTE]

Are we all invited?:wink:


(onYn) #17

So I took a rough read, and even tho I agree to most of your points/ideas in general, there is one statement and argumentation that comes along with it, that I really don´t think is true. I think the following quote sums up the issues I have with the specific topic quiet nicely.

How the “community” wants to introduce more different skills…

So first of all I would like to ask you, where you have the idea from that the “community” (which I count myself a part of) is against embracing anything other than pure natural skill? I honestly think that the “community” asks for many things that do offer a broader variety of useful skills and here is a quick list of this:

  1. Advanced movement that actually is doable not only on few places per map. Helpful in aggressive and defensive maneuvers allowing personal or even team benefits.
  2. Maps that consist of multiple paths and larger areas - promoting a variety of team tactics as well as individual positioning within a situation
  3. Class individual abilities like medical support or objective connected abilities. Those usually come together with a unique play style, that if mastered can bring very useful skills to a team outside of the raw aim.

This is just a real quick summary of what I could think of right now. I can easily see how aim wise inferior players who are good at some of those points or even a mix of them can individually perform in a way that satisfies them as well as bring important skill to a team. Not only do I believe this but also have experienced myself that those things can really make a player good even tho he lacks the “natural” skill of aiming.

… and wan´t to support a smooth entry

The second thing that I disagree on is the idea of the community not wanting the game to be noob friendly. Before I get into this in more detail I would give a specific example of us actually not acting that way. That example would be the class specific abilities. We all have been thrown into such a “high skill” ceiling game some time ago and we know the struggle. We still can remember how much we starved for something specific to do, because we were so confused with all the new things. And that is where we picked up engineers to build objectives just to destroy them with soldiers and the plants they could do later. It was a peace of wood that you could hold on to to not just straight sink. Considering the chaos we faced (small player base, no matchmaking etc.) it was surprising to initially find a useful thing to do, what really was a rewarding experience. That is a massive argument we have been bringing for the class “individuality” over and over. Obviously by itself not THE solution, but an attempt to improve every beginners experience after all.

Anyways, let´s move on… everyone is asking for complex maps and game mechanics and what not. And since we don´t get them, we just keep focusing on them. And I strongly believe that that´s the way to do a long therm motivating and fun game. You need to make a game, that at it´s fullest potential is fun to play over 1000 of hours and THEN should try to make the entry as easy as possible. So right now, I feel like we all ask for this rather complex things, because we want the game to be fun at a mediocre - high level, because that´s the range most players will stick for the longest time. Once that is the case I am pretty sure that most of us will try to find ideas of how to introduce the player step to step into the game, allowing them to experience the game to it´s best potential at every given skill range. And at this point we will all agree on noobfriendly maps, mercs (if ballanced properly that is) and try to focus our feedback on making the beginners experience transition as smoothly as possible to the real game. That´s the f2p model I usually see being successful (basically mobas), where you go through a seemingly endless grind of skill until you are allowed to played ranked game.

I really like any ideas that make the game more beginner friendly. However, I think that it is simply stupid to make the game easier to access and sacrifice some of the “endgames” potential for it when you simply don´t have sufficient data that makes it clear that such a step is needed. In order to get such sufficient data that could tell us how fun the game really is for beginners you would need a huge amount of people with similar FPS experience who are being lead through a proper tutorial and then are matched for some weeks in a proper matchmaking. But we are miles away from that, so yeah…

What I also disagree on, but don´t want to go into details too much is the skill ceiling of aim track etc. being an issue. Even tho I really support the idea of a variety of skills being present in the game I also think that there is place for dominant mechanics, and tracking aim seems to be suiting a FPS game quiet nicely. And while it in fact may turn away some players, any game mechanic can do that really… Also it´s not like it´s a raw talent… there is a lot that you can learn in that regard. Aiming, also tracking, is something that basically benefits from your muscle memory, something you can learn for sure. It still going to take some time, maybe even hundreds of games, but hell when I enjoy the game I am glad that there is something I can learn :).

How is f2p going to make money?

And before I sum this up, I would like to cover the economical point of the f2p model. So wel all agree that a f2p game needs a player base that is as huge as possible. Further, it needs people who enjoy the game to a certain extent and also to play it for extended period. After all, most behave rationally and when they don´t feel like they are getting any additional value out of the game they simply won´t continue playing even if they got hooked in the beginning. So they won´t pay while a competitive scene will have serious trouble growing… Because of that I will never support an idea that makes the game easier to access by a bit, but ruins a lot of the potential “endgame”. It´s just not going to be worth.

So…

So yeah… I don´t think that focusing ideas or the game development on accessibility is going to make us a good game at all. I really think that unless you don´t have a product that is fun at it´s “peak” you don´t need to worry of how to deliver it to the people properly. After all you don´t work on marketing campaigns or write instruction before you have the “almost” finished product…