Al Kad on the horizon.

stebbi67 · 2008-05-01 07:57:00 UTC

[QUOTE=Crocopep;176952]That’t really nice. I’m working on my firstmap and I have a lot of T-juctions.

Thx stebbi ![/QUOTE]

You are welcome, this is very importand to know when starting a new map.

aaa3 · 2008-05-01 15:06:25 UTC

i’m possibly wrong on this but if both faces are caulked (or maybe only 1 is enough?) then it will not create the t-junction tris problem; idk really, but ingame r_showtris tests on my own map suggest this to me … (but yes when both surfaces are textured then it split into very ugly and lot triangles.)

stealth6 · 2008-05-01 15:09:11 UTC

[QUOTE={SSF}Sage;176944]Ok I can explain it to you too. There’s a vertex, then there’s an edge. Don’t let them touch each other. Otherwise they get an aids. That’s it. Bye. :stroggtapir:

Ps. moonshine.

Edit. Oh yeah the vis block is quite hard to work with, atleast when I don’t want to do 9 hrs compile time.[/QUOTE]

hahaha I understand it actually lol, but now I see what u meant by u had something to drink
btw my dad turned off the internet in the middle of our convo last night srr for that

Cambodunum · 2008-05-05 11:29:18 UTC

hmmm sorry awesome map but not playable … too much bugs

Detoeni · 2008-05-05 14:47:49 UTC

I’ve had a quick look at your map, the shaders and the penny dropped. I gave you the models from “bazaar” which is a different map (with different shader paths) to “bazaar_v2” which is what your using. Sorry my bad, its been so long since I made it I forgot about the path changes. The correct shaders for the models are at the end of the post.

Problems with your map…there’s a bit more than just t-junctions.
Load your map up with devmap and add the following to the console:
/r_clear 1
/noclip 1
/con_drawnotify 1
/r_speeds 1

as a spectator fly out side your map and find a spot where you can see the whole map in one go (I had a few problems doing this in your level, It should just be a matter of flying up through the roof, and every thing “should” be drawn).

Once there the r_speeds will show you what is going on in the level (you can also get this type of info from your compile logs, basic rule of thumb, if your vis takes more than 5 seconds then there is a problem),
For your whole level I got the following r_speeds.

FPS = 9/27 (I’m using quite a large rig here, ouch)

1619/17182 shaders/surfs - you want to be aiming at 50% to 70% of this number, the 1024x3 maps all have unique shaders which will not be helping this. you need to reduce the number of shaders you are using, this is not too important, but change will up fps.

2808 leafs - you want to get this down to 350/250 for a level like this. This is the problem you need to look at, leafs control what the player sees, they also are used to organize you bsp and have a big impact on compile times. At the moment your map is structurally too complex and is in bad need of refinement.

Add “-saveprt” to your vis compile, and after recompiling load the prt file in radiant after loading your map. This will show you how your map is been split up. Some of your bad fps is been caused by very small leafs, these need to be removed. Simplifying the structural brush work will help a lot with this. Simplifying the structural hull will also help you control what the player sees in game. This should also help bring down the hunkmeg problem, reducing the shaders used will also help.

At the moment you don’t need to worry about the other numbers, there is nothing there that can not be run well, if you fix the above issues correctly.

You might also want to reduce the poly count in the bazaar section, my level was designed to be run as one room only and is very heavy on detail.

You will also want to remove the wouldspawn keys from the bazaar brush work, a lightmapscale 0.125 wont be doing your compile time any good, also the 50 odd light maps its making are just taking up memory that could be better used else where (goldrush has only 14 lightmaps).

Hope this helps.

 textures/bazaar/moucha1_bazaar
{
	qer_trans 0.85
	qer_editorimage textures/bazaar/tobruk_moucha1_modi.tga
	q3map_cloneshader textures/bazaar/moucha1_bazaar2
	nomipmaps
	nopicmip

	surfaceparm clipmissile
	surfaceparm nomarks
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm playerclip
	surfaceparm metalsteps
	surfaceparm trans

	{
       	map textures/bazaar/tobruk_moucha1_modi.tga
       	alphaFunc GE128
     	 	depthWrite
       	rgbGen identity	
    	}
	{
		map $lightmap
 		blendfunc filter
		rgbGen identity
		tcGen lightmap
 		depthFunc equal
	}
}

textures/bazaar/moucha1_bazaar2
{
	qer_trans 0.85
	qer_editorimage textures/bazaar/tobruk_moucha1_modi.tga
	q3map_invert
	nomipmaps
	nopicmip

	surfaceparm clipmissile
	surfaceparm nomarks
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm playerclip
	surfaceparm metalsteps
	surfaceparm trans

	{
       	map textures/bazaar/tobruk_moucha1_modi.tga
       	alphaFunc GE128
     	 	depthWrite
       	rgbGen identity	
    	}
	{
		map $lightmap
 		blendfunc filter
		rgbGen identity
		tcGen lightmap
 		depthFunc equal
	}
}

stebbi67 · 2008-05-05 16:15:45 UTC

Thanks Detoeni.

This was very helpfull. I will do my best. I have idea how to simplify the setup of structural brushes with out having affect on vis blocking, have to do some tests.

I believe that I removed the lightscale from the worldspawn in very early version of the map with the dlight, so it shold not be there.

Detoeni · 2008-05-05 19:34:13 UTC

The lightmap key is still there somewhere (I’v got the b2 version of the map from your site).
The lighting in the bazaar area is still very sharp compeared to the rest of the level and its the part taking up the bulk of the 50 odd lightmaps exported.

stebbi67 · 2008-05-05 22:06:57 UTC

I found it in classname func_group and deleted it.

There is a “Modelscale 1.5” in the worldspawn, shouldn’t I delete that one also or does it set the model size on the models, like for example the relic ?

Detoeni · 2008-05-06 19:33:24 UTC

The modelscale key should not be in the worldspawn, best remove it.
Modelscale is a compiler option for misc_models and would not effect a game model like the relic.

stebbi67 · 2009-08-09 21:14:14 UTC

Hi all.

Finally I had time to improve this map. Summary of changes are :

Hunk meg issue solved
A bit better fsp in the main area, but really good in other places.
Visblocking improved and made more simple.
Lights added.
Models added.
And a lot of other thinks that takes to long to list.

You can get the map here :

http://stebbi.homeip.net/al_kad/alkad.html

And again thanks to all community members here that helped out.

Paul · 2009-08-09 22:06:00 UTC

Very nice map, but i have a suggestion when making screenshots!
Do this in console:
/cg_draw2d 0
/cg drawgun 0

Then you can make your screenshots without HUD etc, and that looks better.
Furthermore: it’s really nice map

Diego · 2009-08-10 05:59:05 UTC

Very nice map. Lots of detail. But I also get only about 22 fps at the CP. I think you could improve that a lot if the large building that contains the relic was more structural. You would have to seal off all those open windows and make sure the main entrances opened into hallways that could be hint brushed to prevent drawing the interior.

A bigger gripe for me is the command map. You have a complex layout that will take a few plays to learn. The perpective in your command map image not only makes it a little inaccurate, but since it is a screenshot, all of the lighting and textures are in there. When you press the G key to superimpose your command map while still in first person mode, you can’t see anything because the map blends in with the 3d view.

In any event, the FPS probably won’t be an issue on our computers at work. So I’ll upload it and we will try it out this week.

stebbi67 · 2009-08-10 10:33:22 UTC

[QUOTE=Scary;195150]Very nice map, but i have a suggestion when making screenshots!
Do this in console:
/cg_draw2d 0
/cg drawgun 0

Then you can make your screenshots without HUD etc, and that looks better.
Furthermore: it’s really nice map ;)[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
Yes, I know, I know, I should have taken a better screenshots and further more these are from beta2. My girlfriend is about to pack her things due to my relationship with my computer he he, I might sneak to my computer tonight and add some screenshots from beta3.

[QUOTE=Diego;195162]Very nice map. Lots of detail. But I also get only about 22 fps at the CP. I think you could improve that a lot if the large building that contains the relic was more structural. You would have to seal off all those open windows and make sure the main entrances opened into hallways that could be hint brushed to prevent drawing the interior.

A bigger gripe for me is the command map. You have a complex layout that will take a few plays to learn. The perpective in your command map image not only makes it a little inaccurate, but since it is a screenshot, all of the lighting and textures are in there. When you press the G key to superimpose your command map while still in first person mode, you can’t see anything because the map blends in with the 3d view.

In any event, the FPS probably won’t be an issue on our computers at work. So I’ll upload it and we will try it out this week.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
Yes I know of the area at the cp. There was a player with Geforce2 that guided me through the map just to show me the weak spots and he got about 20 fps at the cp, which is the worst point in the map. I have Geforce 8800 and Intel E8400, with all details on and resolution set to 1600x1200, I get 57 fps at the cp. I guess that this spot will be an issue for players with old computers.
I tried to add a vis block to the ramp from the bath house and closed the windows in the house where the relic is and then added hint brushes in order to get a better fps at the cp. Then my old friend “hunk meg” showed up but the fps was really nice I’m sure that this can be done, without my old friend showing up, but I just need more time in front of the computer which is a very risky thing now these days
What I would like to do is to block wall of the “bath house” next to the garden, then the ramp and a part of the house where the relic is. Then we would get a nice fps over the whole map.

Pande · 2009-08-10 18:58:17 UTC

“The two brushes have one t-juntion”

Actually, they have 2. Look to the right also.

Qualmi · 2009-08-10 19:38:54 UTC

great map. liked it alot. t-juncs i can see only 2, but none at the right. also considering the brushes as 0 in height, which could be represented by caulking every side of the brushes except the one you see in top view, then there is only one.

stebbi67 · 2009-08-10 20:50:09 UTC

Here are some screenshots of the beta 3 version :

This is basically the whole map.