Aiming Down Sight and why it needs to changed...

(xRoger) #1

Very rarely does anyone Aim Down Sight, snipers and BFRs aside. It’s extremely under powered for what it is meant to do.

We can do two things, either remove it completely (which would not appease ADS fans) or rework it.

Hipfire is king, and that’s fine. But ADS feels like a button I need to unbind because of how damn useless it is.

On most SMGs/ARs:
-For increased recoil, you gain no-spread. Very bad compromise in such a fast paced game.
-You are very, very slow in ADS - making you a very easy target.
-You flinch a LOT, even with the Flinch perks. Very out of place for such a sacrifice.
-The ADS Speed is very slow for such a fast game.

Suggestion to incentive and give ADS a niche for ARs/SMGs:
-Completely remove all recoil and animation viewkick (such as Fragger’s/Stark ARs bouncing iron sights)
-Remove Flinch when ADS.
-Increase Movement Speed in ADS, especially for SMGs.
-Decrease the time it takes to ‘ADS’.

The reasoning behind all of the above changes is to be able to counter a ‘head-glitch’ position. Right now, as it stands, the Defender who has a huge positional advantage will most likely kill you in a matter of millseconds. You have little to no chance to fight back, especially against high caliber weapons such as the K-121, Dreiss and Blischlok. With these changes, an attacker has a much higher chance to do some damage back - rather than get melted.

For the Sniper style weapons we can do the following:
-Remove Flinch completely because the Sniper doesn’t need to be punished.
-Reduce ‘Movement’ sway when you scope in, or remove it.

Why? As it stands, you have to be completely stationary to land accurate shots, or risk some random idle sway if you peek a corner. Removing the Movement Sway means a Sniper can re-peek a corner without fear of missing, if he hits… he hits. This makes the Attacker Side Sniper much weaker. Only Defensive Sniping works well.

Thoughts?

(god1) #2

ADS’ing is fine. Weapon balance changes aren’t going to shift the game from being very Defender sided into favoring the Attacking team. That stuff requires changes for the map layouts, not guns.

(xRoger) #3

This tackles the core issue of making ADS better, the sub-point/reasoning was that it will make Aggressive playing easier. ADS is not fine, I’m not sure where you got that from.

Like I said, for increased recoil and significantly reduced movement speed in a game that is as fast as this, you gain less spread.

That isn’t fine by any stretch of the imagination. There are two huge downsides for one upside.

(Szakalot) #4

It won’t make aggressive play easier, it will make defensive play easier; as you can hold really tight angles, camping from safety and setting up ADS crossfires; not unlike QW-leaning abuse.

(Dwu) #5

ADS definitely shouldn’t be any better or it would just slow the gameplay down. Enough of those games already.

(Elevory) #6

I never use iron sights because there is no option to change the zoomed-in mouse sensitivity.

(arcane) #7

I have to agree that ADS seems pretty pointless at the moment, and as Elevory said in the previous post you cannot have separate sensitivity for the zoom at the moment. Also the iron sights themselves are too big and obstructive. If there was more sights to choose from including maybe a red dot sight, it would probably make ADS the way it is a little more viable.

(watsyurdeal) #8

Well, the way I see it, aiming down sights should offer better accuracy, and faster cooldown after you fire. Basically you should be losing mobility for accuracy, and hipfire is of course the opposite. But the way game is set up it doesn’t really make a lot of sense to have aiming in the game except for Sniping.

I do feel like though spraying is something that needs to be looked at though. I feel like the spread is too tight from hipfiring as it is currently, I mean I am able to basically burst and hit people at long range…that’s kinda ridiculous really.

(Szakalot) #9

[quote=“majesticClue;18107”]Well, the way I see it, aiming down sights should offer better accuracy, and faster cooldown after you fire. Basically you should be losing mobility for accuracy, and hipfire is of course the opposite. But the way game is set up it doesn’t really make a lot of sense to have aiming in the game except for Sniping.

I do feel like though spraying is something that needs to be looked at though. I feel like the spread is too tight from hipfiring as it is currently, I mean I am able to basically burst and hit people at long range…that’s kinda ridiculous really.[/quote]

sounds like you want to play a different game.

(watsyurdeal) #10

[quote=“Szakalot;18324”]
sounds like you want to play a different game. [/quote]

No, I just don’t see a point in adding a feature that ultimately nobody uses. And I don’t see why hipfire needs to be accurate even at Sniper range. It’s called balance, hipfire should sacrifice accuracy for speed, aiming should sacrifice speed for accuracy and control. Otherwise you might as well not even have aiming, and just make the scopes for Vasilli a quick ability or something.

(umberInlet) #11

[quote=“majesticClue;18336”][quote=“Szakalot;18324”]
sounds like you want to play a different game. [/quote]

No, I just don’t see a point in adding a feature that ultimately nobody uses. And I don’t see why hipfire needs to be accurate even at Sniper range. It’s called balance, hipfire should sacrifice accuracy for speed, aiming should sacrifice speed for accuracy and control. Otherwise you might as well not even have aiming, and just make the scopes for Vasilli a quick ability or something.[/quote]

The way I see it, ADSing is only useful in this game if you are making a really long-range shot, and you would hip fire at distances shorter than that. Imo, ADSing has very little use, but I wouldn’t say none at all. I would also like to say that it should not receive any sort of tweaking either, since I don’t want to be playing CoD all over again. I like DB’s gameplay atm.

(watsyurdeal) #12

[quote=“umberInlet;18405”]
The way I see it, ADSing is only useful in this game if you are making a really long-range shot, and you would hip fire at distances shorter than that. Imo, ADSing has very little use, but I wouldn’t say none at all. I would also like to say that it should not receive any sort of tweaking either, since I don’t want to be playing CoD all over again. I like DB’s gameplay atm.[/quote]

It wouldn’t be like CoD just because aiming down sights is a little more useful, the kill time would still be the same.

The basic jist from what I’ve seen, is that yes, aiming does make your spread tighter, but even still it’s crazy effective to hipfire even at longer ranges. All I’m asking for is that it not be so much so, give aiming a little more room o be useful, not a lot, just enough.

It’s really not that complicated, if I had a better rig atm I’d show spread patterns, but…yea.

(Szakalot) #13

[quote=“majesticClue;18336”][quote=“Szakalot;18324”]
sounds like you want to play a different game. [/quote]

No, I just don’t see a point in adding a feature that ultimately nobody uses. And I don’t see why hipfire needs to be accurate even at Sniper range. It’s called balance, hipfire should sacrifice accuracy for speed, aiming should sacrifice speed for accuracy and control. Otherwise you might as well not even have aiming, and just make the scopes for Vasilli a quick ability or something.[/quote]

ADS has multiple uses:

  • going for trickshots if very little of the enemy is visible
  • long distance
  • surprise flanks at med range (for that ding-ding-ding goodness)
  • switching to ADS when spraying for too long, to finish the enemy off.

SMGs suffer from damage falloff, and trying to engage an equally skilled fop at distance is a deathwish. This is the primary way ranges for weapons are balanced. If you move too much while hipfiring, your acc. will drop pretty quickly, and you can only hope to score bodyshots - not very effective.

In the end, aim is above all, and a good player with a pistol will destroy a poor player with LMG. The balance issues you bring up only really comeup with similarly skilled players.

Nevertheless, I wouldnt mind ADS recoil being dropped down a notch, so sure, we can buff it a bit. Atm. the huge loss in visibility is already a very considerable penalty, having the gun go all over your hud when firing can be annoying indeed.

tl:dr ADS has uses that are fine, but fairly niche. Reduce recoil to make ADS more useful would be welcome

(Ruvan) #14

ADS is useful enough. It’s a bit like wall jumping in that there is a bit of a learning curve to actually using it properly.

I think Szakalot pretty much covered the potential uses.

(avidCow) #15

I wouldn’t mind less of the jumping, if only because it hurts my eyes to focus on it.

(spectralUmbrella) #16

Yeah dude, I don’t know how I feel about ADS in Dirty Bomb yet. I come from mainly a twitch shooter background so ADS always feels weird to me. In the context of this game, it feels very situational. I find myself using it in very long range to pick off and pepper enemies, which is great because for such a Quake-y pace, there are some great expansive areas in many of the maps where it feels appropriate. At this stage though it just feels kind of arbitrary.