Add more servers for EU Stopwatch

(Eox) #61

Yeah, but I really hope speed will remain. Thanks a lot for your answer though. :slight_smile:

(bumbertyr) #62

[quote=“tartCanvas;12665”]The Proxy speed nerf is justified by saying that Proxy has 10 more HP than Aura, and should thus be less effective in terms of speed. This reasoning breaks apart by itself because Aura effectively has much more HP than Proxy due to her healing station. I may be biased because I personally play Proxy but I really think that Proxy needs the movement speed considering she can be 3shot with the K121. That’s right, a potential 3 shot kill across the map with headshots, a 5 shot kill on bodyshots. Proxy needs defensive evasion.
In addition, I also think the ECHO data on Proxy’s performance may be skewed, since many of the Proxies I tend to play against seem to be above average skill-wise, possibly making Proxy look dominant in comparison to other mercs.
Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

In general Proxies skill set is just a lot better for this game than the rest of the mercs, Constant pressure with her speed + shotgun, her defusing and planting bombs in 4-5 seconds.

(Glot) #63

this echo thingy realy bothers me.
you didnt even have the equal matches stats for those desisions! (matchmaking failed?)
and the number with good teams matches is so small for being statistically correct.

for example you didnt have RedEye in any team. This guy kills Proxy with 2 spam bodyshots!
you didnt have Rhino in any team, who can easily take out Proxy.
You said that Mercs are balanced as a whole, keeping all of them in mind. So that you can counter some mercs combos with other combos.
And now balancing any mercs without stats from all 20 mercs? i totally do not get it.

sad.

(adeto) #64

[quote=“Glottis-3D;12927”]this echo thingy realy bothers me.
you didnt even have the equal matches stats for those desisions! (matchmaking failed?)
and the number with good teams matches is so small for being statistically correct.

for example you didnt have RedEye in any team. This guy kills Proxy with 2 spam bodyshots!
you didnt have Rhino in any team, who can easily take out Proxy.
You said that Mercs are balanced as a whole, keeping all of them in mind. So that you can counter some mercs combos with other combos.
And now balancing any mercs without stats from all 20 mercs? i totally do not get it.

sad.[/quote]

You can’t paly redeye and rhino atm can you? So what does balancing for unavailable merc sdo? Your comment makes no sense with the current game state… When they get released one by one it’s not like they just go ‘WELL WE RELEASED THOSE SO FUCK BALANCING FROM NOW ON!’ they will balance appropriatly as the game develops and the merc-pool grows. Also saying ‘matchmaking failed’ is a silly argument because there simply aren’t enough competitive matches to simply balance from that alone. Unless you don’t want them to balance at all until there are a lot of teams. But if thats the case you have no right to complain about any mercs/gameplay related things.

Echo is a great tool as long as it isn’t used a single provider, as far as I know(from some Dev posts) they look at community complaints and reference the Echo data to see if the stats confirm what the community complains about. Echo doesn’t show Proxy with high KDR/stats if she is getting rekt in every duel.

(Glot) #65

merc pool was 16 mercs for a year. and most mercs were already tweaked several times.
the game on release will be 20 mercs. so there is no point in this growing merc pool apart from marketing.
in the final release there will be mercs like Redeye and Rhino, who took out Proxy in no time for a whole YEAR!!

so i make perfect sense, mate.

SD should balance all mercs when they are all available.
other wise - lets leave 2 mercs in the Pool Fragger and Proxy. she will be SOOO underpowered, woudnt she? or lets compare Arty and Proxy - she is total badass now?? the less mercs in the Pool - the less justified balancing desisions are.

This restricted merc Pool balancing is a mistake.

(Eox) #66

[quote=“bumbertyr;12869”][quote=“tartCanvas;12665”]The Proxy speed nerf is justified by saying that Proxy has 10 more HP than Aura, and should thus be less effective in terms of speed. This reasoning breaks apart by itself because Aura effectively has much more HP than Proxy due to her healing station. I may be biased because I personally play Proxy but I really think that Proxy needs the movement speed considering she can be 3shot with the K121. That’s right, a potential 3 shot kill across the map with headshots, a 5 shot kill on bodyshots. Proxy needs defensive evasion.
In addition, I also think the ECHO data on Proxy’s performance may be skewed, since many of the Proxies I tend to play against seem to be above average skill-wise, possibly making Proxy look dominant in comparison to other mercs.
Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

In general Proxies skill set is just a lot better for this game than the rest of the mercs, Constant pressure with her speed + shotgun, her defusing and planting bombs in 4-5 seconds. [/quote]

Shotguns won’t be helpful with decent players due to their great loss of DPS past a low-mid range, while automatic and burst weapons will keep their full DPS and will shred you before you’ll be able to reach anyone. Her great speed is counterbalanced by her very low hp value (a lot of things can one-shot you or down you in less than one second). A Proxy on an objective is sure quick to arm it, and even quicker to down (does not move or moves slowly, 90 hp). She’s far from being better than everyone, especially when you have mercs like Fragger that is able to wipe down whole teams with his frag grenades with an extreme facility and has a machingun with an insane firepower, and Aura that can tank a stupid amount of damage inside her health station despite her low hp and revive the whole team in a very short time. Skyhammer, Arty, and Sawbonez are not that bad either since probably won’t have any real hard counters (Aura will have a very hard time once Nader and Stoker will be out, Fragger is slow and will probably have an hard time against Vassili). I have myself no problem at fighting Proxy using Sawbonez : they end dead after only five Blishlok shots, without even doing headshots.

(R5on11c) #67

Hmmm, I think you’re looking at this with too narrow a field.

What you can say for certain based off these patch notes is that SD has decided to try to tune Proxy down, based on collected data.

This doesn’t mean they think Aura isn’t in need of attention, in fact they’re also adjusting Aura this patch.

It would be very unusual to me to see them tuning Aura and Proxy with the exact same stats just because they have comparable base values.
They’re two very different Mercs with independent roles and unique identifying features. So a change that makes sense for Proxy, does not automatically make sense for Aura and vice versa.

[/quote]

The thing is that you need fragile and fast classes to fit their purpose. I agree that Proxy and Aura need adjustments but neither Speed nor Health is required to set the balance for the classes.
The speed is an ultimate requirement for those classes, as their main purpose is dependant on their swiftness and flexiblitiy on the combat field. If you can’t dash out and revive a teammate fast or follow up a Proxy to rush objectives, Auras versatility is set down to a tank buffer.
If you can’t rush objectives with Proxy or manuver quickly on the battlefield, the Proxy would just be an easy target with low health and couldn’t fit her purpose at all, as there will be other engineer classes.

My comparison to each other, Aura and Proxy, is based upon the capability on the battlefield. If you have the survivability to withstand the enemy on the battlefield, you can do the job you are supposed to do. If you are able to outfrag classes with a certain Advantage, the Advantage needs a nerf. Since those 2 classes have only differences in their abilities, you should rather take a look at their special abilities rather than their base stats.

Aura’s healing station Heals to fast or the Heal kicks in to quickly.

Proxy is fine as she is. The only thing that really gets people’s attention is her proximity mine, which is:

  1. Avoidable, you can see it, you can destroy it
  2. Not ultimatly a guaranteed kill

The fact that Proxy is more likely to be effective than other Classes at her job or on the battlefield doesn’t ultimatly mean that she is more powerful. Most Proxy players are good or at least fitting their role correctly, which makes them more likely to succeed at whatever they are supposed to do. Other classes like Arty and Sawbonez, which are not primarily ought for slaying are often likely to attempt to slay. I am not setting this as an ultimate fact but as my and my fellow players experience throughout the matches.

(delightfulIncident) #68

[left]About the merc price, i didn’t understand. Some people talk about 50K to get the merc, and different prices for merc.
Remarks about “can’t test the merc before buy it” or “if i buy a merc and then i don’t like it ?” are good too.

My opinion : I think that all merc should be at the same price. And all “base” merc (without augment) should be available to all players … but loadouts with augment and upgrade only available for “extended” bought merc.
Perhaps some competition will only be with “base” merc, without “augment”. Same as some ET tournaments, player are “level 1” and no XP gain to get bonus. It will open all merc to all competitors.

About proxy nerf … why not. Proxy high speed + high level DPS at short range => OP for closed fight … yes, it is the idea, but the close fight power is too OP i agree.
SD chooses to nerf speed to nerf “survivability” in short range fight i think, Proxy will be most “shotable”. The problem is that it will nerf also potential to do the objective, and it is the main merc for objective.
Wait & See, we are on closed beta to see impacts of all “test” made by SD. The objective is to have a well balanced game on release.
[/left]

(art1er) #69

•Reduced Healing Station deployable health to 90hp (from 100hp)
•This makes the station a little easier to destroy, without detracting from it’s role of powerful, fixed, in-combat healing

HARDCORE NERFFFFFFFFF.

(Jan S.) #70

Thank you for the update!
Enjoying Dirty Bomb so far! :wink:

(distinquishedSandwich) #71

Regardless, the problem of fragger lies in the POOR POOR area of effect calculation of the explosion.

It can blow up a few feet away from you and deal tons of damage, put that together with the LMG of his, THAT DEALS 36 DAMAGE IN A HEADSHOT and has a huge magazine and decent RoF it’s obvious, as the name implies he’s made for fragging.

Obviously, as a “high level player” I’d love to see some more focus on blast radius on Proxy mines, Airstrike, and Fragnades, cause the only balance ability in the bunch seems to be Artillery Strike, where you’d have to call down BOTH charges to kill with splash damage, and not even both can disable the EV unless it gets hit by the center explosion which is small, like how it should be.

Here’s another thing, Fragger, Rhino and Thunder are the toughest mercs in terms of HP, and a frag nade deals 150 damage… Isn’t this sort of unfair to have a 150 damage explosive with crazy blast radius for an “improved” grenade that he tosses about. The fact it deals 150, and the outer blast radius isn’t propper tunned, all the below 110 hp classes get utterly rekt by the AoE.

And WHAT is the point of pinapple juggler, HE CAN COOK GRENADES!
And throwing knives are useless as well, augments pls

(etherealJar) #72

Ok seriously. What the fuck? Only TWO stopwatch server for EU since last update? What the heck are the devs thinking?

(The99thProblem) #73

It is brilliant the way you explain every re-work of the weapon/merc balances. Has to be some of the most descriptive balancing I have seen in games. Well done.

(DadoPeja) #74

I see you guys added red cicrcle for enemies aura station :smiley: was that in last second? :wink:

(Eox) #75

I see you guys added red cicrcle for enemies aura station :smiley: was that in last second? :wink: [/quote]

Yeah, that change is awesome ! Great quality of life improvement. :slight_smile:

(DadoPeja) #76

They are thinking dirty :wink:

(phenomenalHoneydew) #77

Please lower the price for the random cases.1000 bucks are too much-it’s random…and 50000 for a merc is no micro transaction…Please think about making the gins available for all kind of mercs. Raise the case drop and random event for gold cards and make more interesting cards, they don’t change that much to gameplay. Raise the health or weaon power of sawbones . Give Arty a automatic gun and the Sniper guy faster reload ir a better secondary weapon.Thanks

(Swanidius) #78

give us 5on5 servers

(BeardyDuck) #79

Nerfing the movement speed instead of nerfing the shotgun. Great decision making.

Also yes, looking at ECHO data without taking into account the skill level of the people playing Proxy makes little to no sense as competent decision making.

(powi_) #80

Hi all!

Im powi, somewhat known in the Enemy Territory scene, where i played on a high level for about 5 years (ESL:EMS, CB:EC, CB:NC).

Let me share my toughts on the mercs. Pls take note, that this was before the update. Actually i couldnt play the game since the update, but i’ve read the changes u made.

aura:

  • really fast, so its easy to revive and run away with her, keeping her teammates alive pretty effectively.
  • has a very good close combat weapon
  • her healing station is really powerful, making her nearly immortal in a 1v1, 1v2 situation.
  • with somewhat creative play you can be very effective at offense also (cause u can move the healing station so easily).
  • compared to sawbonez its easier to revive with her cause of movement speed
  • compared to sawbonez her healing station is much superiour to sawbonez medpacksabilities.

I think she is the most overpowered merc here, and also she makes sawbonez somewhat useless. As much as i love playing with this merc, i think she should be nerfed (the nerf u guys used wont really affect the gameplay). One possible nerf would be, after she picks up her healing station, she cant place it down again for some time. The other possible nerf would be, her healing station would start healing after some seconds passed. This way she cant be that mobile and strong.

proxy:

  • really fast, which is essential, cause she has low hp, and she needs to do the objectives.
  • has a very good close combat weapon
  • has somewhat useful proximity mines
  • has a very good secondary weapon (machine pistol? or smth)
  • low hp

    I think proxy was just fine, maybe her secondary weapon was a bit too owerpowered (felt like the fire rate and accuracy was a bit too good). I think there might be a missunderstanding about this merc, cause i actually cant remember seeing a “bad” player using her, or using her long, however i saw fragger, skyhammer players who played really terribly. Im not sure why, but i think less skilled players just dont choose proxy, but the slower, bigger characters with lots of hp and ammo. I can say, i often played with proxy and aura, cause i enjoy their movement speed, but honestly i could and did dominate with any merc. Overall i think the proxy nerf isnt a good move, you should nerf her secondary weapon a bit thats all, aura is still much OP.

sawbonez:

  • solid primary and secondary weapon
  • medicore movement speed
  • medicore healing abilities (medpacks)
  • mid hp

Okay this is the thing. There is no point using sawbonez over aura. His movement speed is lower, making it harder for fast revives (and easier to kill him). 1-0 aura. His healing abilities are not that good, only two medpacks, while healing stations heals you infite times with a very fast rate. 2-0 aura. The effectiveness of his weapon is situational, its best for midrange, while aura’s weapon is best for close range, so lets say weapon wise its balanced, making it 3-1 to aura’s side.

Overall i think sawbonez is fine, you need to nerf aura to make sawbonez a more reasonalbe choice.

fragger

  • slow movement speed
  • pretty strong weapon
  • strong frag grenade
  • high hp

    As the name implies, fragger should frag people. I think he is fine like that. His frag nade, if used correctly can kill any people nearly any distance. He is also good for multikills, and a good counter-option to aura’s healing station. I saw a lot of ppl cry about him, but then think about panzerfaust in RTCW/ET or riflegrenades in ET. In a competitive environment of course u should limit the count of him (so i mean 1 fragger / team or smth), but overall i think he is fine.

The last two mercs i had (arty and skyhammer), i didnt play them that much, so just giving a short opinion. I think skyhammer is fine the way he is, however i often choosed fragger instead of him. Arty - well, he sucks :smiley:

in my eyes, a list from the weakest merc to the strongest follows like this:
arty (should be bumped)
skyhammer, proxy, fragger (dont change them)
aura (should be nerfed in a better way)