Abilities, Weapons, Weapon Attachments, and Body Types in Competition

(zicogja421) #1

Hello,

  I am just wondering what you competition-minded Brink players expect or would hope for when it comes to restrictions on character abilities, weapons, weapon attachments, and even body types in competition.

  From what I understand, there is a stock competitive config that restricts the max character ranking to 5, thus precluding any player from using a rank 5 ability like 'downed fire' or 'Gatling turret'. I don't know if it's possible yet, however, for a server config to block out specific abilities, weapons, weapon attachments, or body types while allowing for others. I suppose that if an SDK is released, a mod could probably allow for server restrictions on those things if it's not possible with the stock version of the game.

  But aside from what servers will be [I]able[/I] to restrict, there is also the more important question of which abilities, weapons, weapon attachments, and body types, if any, [I]should[/I] be restricted in competition. I think it is really just a matter of what the competitive community wants and what lends itself best to the most enjoyable competitive experience.

    The two extremes are barebones and stock. In the case of this game, I imagine barebones would probably mean players could only use abilities, weapons, attachments, and body types that were not unlockables. And stock would simply mean that players could use whatever they want.

     I don't think it's conducive to just assume that barebones is the best configuration for competition and that stock is the worst (indeed, I doubt any serious competitive player would want pure barebones for this game - as it would, for example, prohibit the use of the light body type). Rather, as some people have said in other posts, the competitive community should discuss specifically which abilities, weapons, attachments, and body types should be restricted in competition [I]and why[/I]. I think it will take many more collective hours of pubbing, scrimming, and playing matches before the competitive community can reach at least a near-consensus on restrictions, but I think we can already start to discuss potential restrictions based on what we have learned from our varied experiences.

     Honestly, I have been pubbing barebones since I got the game (except for the use of the light body type), because I don't want to get used to any crutches that might not be allowed in competition. But I'm starting to get the feeling that all weapons, attachments, and body types will be allowed in comp (although I could be wrong). So I am guessing that most of the discussion about restrictions will revolve around abilities.

     I'll start the discussion by saying, as a general note, I think one of the main issues with abilities, weapon attachments, and body types is that, unless I am mistaken, they must be chosen before the match even starts and cannot be changed thereafter unless the player reconnects with a different or modified character. What this means is that, in the context of a scrim or a match, neither team would be able to adapt certain characteristics of its players (like body types or abilities) in response to whatever characteristics were chosen by the other team before the match even started. In ET, a previous SD game, you could easily adapt to the characteristics of the other team mid-match simply by changing class. But, in Brink, you can't really do that when it comes to body types, abilities, or weapon attachments - as far as I know. Now, I am not trying to say that Brink should be like ET, but I think that the 'immutability' of certain player characteristics is very important to consider when discussing what should and should not be restricted in competition. The argument could be made that immutable body types and abilities creates for a different, but not worse, competitive experience, in which the teams must learn how to use their fixed characteristics (pre-selected body types and abilities) to their advantage during the scrim or match. But is that really what we want?

In the vein of another post in this forum, please use bold text to indicate what type of restriction (or lack thereof) you are discussing in your reply. For example:

Abilities: I think the combat intuition ability should be disabled because…

Body Types: The heavy body type should be banned in competition because…

(Mattc0m) #2

I think the topic you’re looking for is here:
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25784

Do you mind adding your thoughts from here in that thread? Just the topics covered are seemingly identical, and I think you raise some really good points.

Also, just want to point out to can’t restrict abilities attached to rank (like downed fire) with any current CVAR.

Thanks!

(zicogja421) #3

[QUOTE=Mattc0m;314745]I think the topic you’re looking for is here:
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25784

Do you mind adding your thoughts from here in that thread? Just the topics covered are seemingly identical, and I think you raise some really good points.

Also, just want to point out to can’t restrict abilities attached to rank (like downed fire) with any current CVAR.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Thanks for your reply. I saw your thread and realized the similarities, but I wanted to create a separate thread that focuses specifically on these 4 things, which are basically what could be called ‘player characteristics’. I did not want to focus on other competitive configuration variables like player count, map pool, map times, spawn times, etc.

(4days) #4

Good question, this is something I was wondering about just playing the ‘single player’ mode. Been trying to learn the game/maps/objectives while my useless bot team is TAKING THE COMMAND POST and thinking about switching body types/add-ons, then realised that I couldn’t. I don’t get the reasoning behind this. It makes sense that switching characters mid-round could be bad because you might be switching to a class-specific set of perks, but maybe there could be a light/medium/pointless option at command posts in addition to selecting a class.

Obviously the SMART thing wouldn’t work if it was different between classes, so body type has to be it’s own thing - but I can imagine that limitation being a real bugger for clan players who are used to adapting to a situation. To a lesser extent, the same might be true for weapon add-ons, but I’d guess most players will have all their weapons set up the way they like them already.

Apologies in advance if the option’s actually there and I’ve somehow missed it.

Google says maybe abilities are configurable:
http://pastebin.com/kwJYi9t9

(zicogja421) #5

[QUOTE=4days;315866]Good question, this is something I was wondering about just playing the ‘single player’ mode. Been trying to learn the game/maps/objectives while my useless bot team is TAKING THE COMMAND POST and thinking about switching body types/add-ons, then realised that I couldn’t. I don’t get the reasoning behind this. It makes sense that switching characters mid-round could be bad because you might be switching to a class-specific set of perks, but maybe there could be a light/medium/pointless option at command posts in addition to selecting a class.

Obviously the SMART thing wouldn’t work if it was different between classes, so body type has to be it’s own thing - but I can imagine that limitation being a real bugger for clan players who are used to adapting to a situation. To a lesser extent, the same might be true for weapon add-ons, but I’d guess most players will have all their weapons set up the way they like them already.

Apologies in advance if the option’s actually there and I’ve somehow missed it.[/QUOTE]

No, I’m pretty sure you’re right: there is currently no way to change body type, attachments, or abilities in the middle of a match without reconnecting.

Another general note: I think it is important also to consider how predictable or unpredictable the competitive community wants in-game combat to be because of unpredictable player characteristics. Speaking generally, I think we can say that the more abilities there are allowed in competition, the more unpredictable combat will be in any given scrim or match.

For example, imagine that your team is playing a scrim or match against a team that can potentially build 5 medium turrets. In a situation like that, a team that happened to have players who chose the EMP grenade ability before the match could be said to have a random competitive advantage, versus that team, over other teams whose players happened to choose different abilities before the match.

It is also important, I think, to distinguish between two different kinds of unpredictability. On the one hand, there are abilities that can be detected when they are being used. For example, you can see a turret that has been deployed by someone with that ability. And supposedly, you can see a glow around a player that has been buffed with adrenaline. On the other hand (and someone please correct me if I’m wrong here), there are abilities that cannot be detected until after they have already been used. For example, you cannot know that a player has the downed fire ability until he starts shooting you from the ground. With the first type of unpredictability, you can at least know what you’re in for during the combat. In the second type, it’s just really a matter of luck or guessing.

The concern with unpredictability could be posed with the following question: how many variables do we want competitive players to have to account for in order for them to be optimally effective during combat? For example, if everything were allowed, then the thought process for a player might go something like this before and while he engages in combat with an enemy: Does he have a kevlar vest? Does his weapon allow him to shoot more accurately while strafing than mine does? If I kill him, will he be able to shoot me after he’s been incapped? Or possibly even blow me up if I try to melee gib him?.. etc. As far as I know, there is no way for a player to know the answer to any of these questions when he first encounters an enemy. And when it comes to the second type of unpredictable abilities (mentioned in the previous paragraph), there is, by definition, no way for a player to know the answers to these types of questions - at least not at first. And, going back to what I wrote earlier, the more abilities that are allowed, the more variables that competitive players would have to account for. Some might call that fun, others might consider it annoyingly unpredictable.

I am not saying that everything should be predictable in competitive Brink. Rather, I am noting that we should keep this element of unpredictability in mind when discussing any kind of restrictions on abilities (and possibly weapons and attachments, although I don’t sense much concern with either of those areas). It is also worth nothing that this unpredictability is potentially an issue regardless of whether or not we could be able to change abilities mid-game. This is because even if you could change abilities mid-game, it wouldn’t necessarily make combat more predictable, as you could still not ever really be certain which abilities the enemy players would be using at any given time. The unpredictability is really just a matter of how many abilities are allowed and which (types of) abilities are allowed.

(Decayed) #6

I feel each game is different, like basketball, football and baseball are different. There are varying amounts of random, unpredictable behavior which is inherent to each individual game.
For instance in hockey, a 5hole isn’t a guaranteed goal. Or in basketball, a free throw is not a guaranteed point.
Hockey has line changes and the home team has the last ability to change.

It seems like from game to game everyone wants the games to be the same so things remain the same. It’s like saying oh hockey sucks on ice, I don’t want to learn how to skate, let’s change it to a regular floor. Let’s put the nets up high, make the puck into a ball, and only allow dribbling. But let’s leave line changes in cause that seems like something that we can deal with.

I do agree that some things like acc/spread could be better, but is it really gamebreaking? I don’t know, and if we start seeing pubnubscrubs defeating proven elite teams, then maybe it’s time to really think about it. Personally I think some randomness is still not a bad thing, so long as it doesn’t negate skill 100%.

(zicogja421) #7

[QUOTE=Decayed;316185]I feel each game is different, like basketball, football and baseball are different. There are varying amounts of random, unpredictable behavior which is inherent to each individual game.
For instance in hockey, a 5hole isn’t a guaranteed goal. Or in basketball, a free throw is not a guaranteed point.
Hockey has line changes and the home team has the last ability to change.

It seems like from game to game everyone wants the games to be the same so things remain the same. It’s like saying oh hockey sucks on ice, I don’t want to learn how to skate, let’s change it to a regular floor. Let’s put the nets up high, make the puck into a ball, and only allow dribbling. But let’s leave line changes in cause that seems like something that we can deal with.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I am not in favor of trying to make every game the same. But I am also not against the competitive community trying to modify the settings of a game so that it is more enjoyable in serious competition. If the settings end up being similar to those in previous games, that might just be because the community happens to consist of the same or similar kinds of players.

In the case of abilities, like I said, I think it’s just a matter of 1) how many abilities to allow and 2) which abilities to allow.

It is easy to understand why the first issue is important to consider. Imagine if the game had 20 more abilities spread out among the different classes. Then combat would be even more unpredictable. I don’t think it’s wise to assume that Splash Damage happened to include the exact number of abilities that is ideal for the most enjoyable competitive experience for this community.

And it is important to consider the second issue because it is conceivable that some abilities are overwhelmingly considered to be simply unsuitable or annoying in competition. Again, it just depends on what the competitive community, overall, wants.