Abilities and upgrades

(tokamak) #81

Yeah I’d rather see you go through the trouble of physically killing yourself rather than using a command.

That doesn’t even make sense.

(DarkangelUK) #82

This ^^^^^

(Seyu) #83

As far as I know, you first have to call for a medic.

[QUOTE=Jamieson;231034]Not being able to self kill at any time in the game is a poor decision. There have been many times when I have been in combat with my eye on the spawn timer, if I see its around 2 seconds, and I know the fight will go on for longer than 2 seconds then depending on how I feel the fights going I might just self kill.
…[/QUOTE]

To me that seems that seems tantamount to cheating. If you are losing in combat and that simply means that either you are inferior in skills or made a bad decision, self kill lets the losing party escape from the consequences. I have never played either of the SD games competitively and can’t really comment from that perspective but I’d rather this option was not put into the game.

rofl epic :smiley:

Also, has it been confirmed that we’ll be having respawn rounds instead of individual timers?

Edit: Missing words

(DarkangelUK) #84

They removed the /kill function from QL and the comp crowd screamed it would destroy CTF as it was used as a tactic. Well safe to say it had no such effect and everyone changed tactics and play style and the world didn’t come to an end… amazing

(Jamieson) #85

How does me or any player self killing put you at a disadvantage? If anything it puts you at an advantage.

I just saved you some bullets, time and now you don’t have to worry about gibbing me as well, or a medic reviving me. Sure you didn’t get the kill stat or the XP but there pointless anyway, you know how much XP you get from killing someone? As near as makes no difference to 0. Any game you play and I guarantee you the people at the top of the XP board are the ones doing the objectives or reviving people like crazy.

My typical game is high up on the frags or highest fragger but always mid XP, if you focus on killing and your at the top of the XP board then your team is doing something wrong.

(tokamak) #86

Selfkilling doesn’t make a game tactically stronger, it’s only an option to minimalise the consequences of dying.

(Jamieson) #87

Your right you use it to minimalsie the consequences of dying, you do that because you know the not doing it puts you at a disadvanatge, how is that not a tactical decision?

I’m guessing you guys didn’t miss me while I was gone did you lol ahahah

(tokamak) #88

Might be a tactical decision, but actually having to cope with the consequence of your death would put you in a tactically far more difficult situation. In that sense selfkilling is the easy way out.

Why do comp players always want everything the easy way? And with that I truly mean everything, what’s so competitive about that? Would chess be more competitive if every piece moved like a queen?

(Seyu) #89

How can it put you at a disadvantage when its the same for everyone on both sides?

…I’m guessing you guys didn’t miss me while I was gone did you lol ahahah

Just because we disagree with you doesn’t mean your views aren’t needed.

(ignore the hammer)

(Jamieson) #90

[QUOTE=tokamak;231118]Might be a tactical decision, but actually having to cope with the consequence of your death would put you in a tactically far more difficult situation. In that sense selfkilling is the easy way out.

Why do comp players always want everything the easy way? And with that I truly mean everything, what’s so competitive about that? Would chess be more competitive if every piece moved like a queen?[/QUOTE]

It might be easier Tokamak but its not selfish as some people seem to imply, I don’t care about stats and I don’t care about XP, mainly because in comp neither matter but even in Pub it only gives you a slight advanatage. My perspective is that its selfish of me to try and kill somebody and risk dying at a very bad time for the team i.e. on 20seconds till the next respawn. I want the team to win so I respawn on 0 seconds if the situation is bad.

The selfkill can be used in many different ways tactically. For example one time in comp I was a technician and killed a GDF player, I had 10HP left, I made a spawnhost, I heard a GDF player take out one of my teammates around the corner, I saw the spawn timer was on 2 seconds, I respawned at my spawn host with full HP and then took out the GDF player and revived my teammate, Thats tactical and allowed us to push in on the objective and win. Not doing that would have probably left me dead and waiting in the respawn quque for 19-20seconds and my spawn host removed.

(tokamak) #91

I’m not using ‘it’s selfish’ as an argument. I don’t like the implications it has on the decision-making aspect of the game.

And don’t think your presence isn’t appreciated here.

(Jamieson) #92

[QUOTE=tokamak;231121]I’m not using ‘it’s selfish’ as an argument. I don’t like the implications it has on the decision-making aspect of the game.

And don’t think your presence isn’t appreciated here.[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand why you don’t like it though, logically your not at any disadvanatge what so ever, by me selfkilling I have just 100% removed any risk from the equation and 100% guranteed that you win the firefight which also means you have to spend less time and ammo trying to physically kill me.

Its not exactly cowardly either, there have been times when on 1-2 seconds where I have thought ok I can have this guy but tactically I make the decision that its more sensible to self kill and ensure I make the next spawn wave where I can counter attack and take the guy out. Selfkilling provides stability as it ensures you make the next wave. Dying isn’t bad in fact in can be a good thing as you ensure you always have high hp and ammo + grenades etc, spending 20seconds in the quque is bad. Mastering the selfkill is infact a vital tool to defending.

(tokamak) #93

You negate the negative consequence of dying, you instantly spawn after you die, that’s a big enough disadvantage to me.

It’s not coward, it’s not selfish, but it is a cheap way of getting yourself out of a pickled situation and avoid a penalty. I’d rather see a player actually deal with the situation in-game OR ELSE face the penalty of having to sit out a respawn round.

If you’re low on ammo, low on hp, or about to die, then the solution lies in team-mates, command posts, or balls to the wall desperate measures. Those are real tactical decisions, bailing out in order to minimise the negative effects of dying is not.

And frankly, I don’t see why it’s the competitive players that favour this. If I look at competitive settings then all I see is measures to simplify the game, less spread, changeable body-types, and self killing are all part of making the game less complex. I honestly do not understand why that is required for competitions.

(Jamieson) #94

Whats the difference though? If you physically killed me on 0 seconds the same would happen I would just instantly respawn. Even when I respawn I still have to spend the time traverling back to the objective etc.

(tokamak) #95

True, but that would be my problem and should be out of your control.

(AnthonyDa) #96

Ho noes, my stats are broken because people /kill too much :frowning:

(INF3RN0) #97

[QUOTE=tokamak;231105]Yeah I’d rather see you go through the trouble of physically killing yourself rather than using a command.

That doesn’t even make sense.[/QUOTE]

XP does not matter duh.

(AnthonyDa) #98

Does in BRINK if you can buy stuff with XP. (which isn’t sure)

(Jamieson) #99

[QUOTE=tokamak;231125]
And frankly, I don’t see why it’s the competitive players that favour this. If I look at competitive settings then all I see is measures to simplify the game, less spread, changeable body-types, and self killing are all part of making the game less complex. I honestly do not understand why that is required for competitions.[/QUOTE]

Reducing the spread doesn’t simplify the gameplay it just changes it, instead of it encouraging camping and making it slow it does the opposite it makes it fast and free flowing.

I don’t want to simplfy the gameplay but what I want is options, the freedom to be in complete control of my character. More options i.e. changing your class/bodytype and being able to kill yourself at any time = more diversity and more complex tactics.

It really grinds my gears how people assume reducing the spread simlplifies the game, it gives people the freedom to shoot + dodge at the same time whereas in Vanilla your restricted to the ground and can’t shoot at long ranges without using the ironsights. In promod because the spread is low you can be shot from half way across the map so you have to be extra alert.

(tokamak) #100

We already had a huge discussion on spread so I won’t get into that, you know my stance on it. Though having seen the gun properties, I can also add that reducing spread would also severely reduce the width of the gun variety spectrum.

Having lots of freedom does simplify the game as you won’t have to deal with all the hurdles being thrown in your way.

Some forms of freedom, like free running do increase the diversity, in this case number of positions and angles you can expect opponents coming from. But it also comes included with lots of conditions, like bodytype limitations and reload/sprint/shoot limitations while climbing.

Competitive players however, always seem to want a free lunch. Everything should be totally devoid of costs, and when that happens, it doesn’t really matter what choices you make as there won’t ever be severe consequences of making the wrong decision. This is definitely why I prefer to play pub, at least those people deal with the effects of their choices rather than to externally circumvent it.

The only way I can understand it from a competitive perspective is that it shifts the focus from tactical skills to cognitive skills. That’s what competitive players seem to want to accomplish. The idea that a player without good hand-eye coordination beats a ‘pro’ player on tactical insight alone seems like a nightmare to them.

Ragoo kind of affirms that with his signature.