One this that has been annoying for me about bots is their aim. I have seen vids of aimbots with humanized aim and am baffled why isn’t such a function implemented to regular bots?
I want high-skilled bots sometimes, but not such that make un-human like moves.
Just test it by going to timescale 0.1 and watch their aim clamp on to you as you jump or do some other fast move.
A thread on bot AI - Some feedback for SD
murka
(murka)
#21
Exedore
(Exedore)
#22
Accuracy is just the easiest way to make bots seem ‘good’. Making them tactically smarter and having them adapt is much more difficult.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#24
Just saw this update in TF2 on bots, pretty interesting stuff, there’s plenty to learn from mistakes and creative ideas made in other games.
In KOTH mode, Bots are now
More likely to roam around and hunt enemies if there is lots of time left
Become more likely to push for the point as time runs down, or their teammates start to capture it
Medic bots now
Opportunistically “overheal” nearby friends when they can
Prioritize healing of injured nearby friends more
Don’t focus on Heavies quite so exclusively
Don’t spam their Medigun continuously at round start
Won’t choose cover far below their heal target so much (koth_nucleus)
Fight back with their syringe-gun appropriately
Various improvements to combat behaviors
General bot improvements
They no longer stand still on the point when capturing or defending it
They choose more varied routes now
They choose better defensive spots around captured points
They fall back to another weapon when they entirely run out of ammo
They adjust their FOV when using zoomed in sniper scope
They treat in-range Sentries as the most dangerous threat
They fire their weapons is more realistic bursts
Engineers use their shotgun properly
Added a “virtual mousepad” concept to rework how bots track enemy players
They now periodically estimate the position and velocity of the enemy they are tracking, instead of “locking on”
After rotating beyond a maximum angle, they will pause for a fraction of a second to re-center their “virtual mouse”
Allows for over/undershoot “slop” in aiming. Looks more natural, and allows skilled players to dodge
Addresses the “180 spin around and fire”, “Heavy bot is OP”, “Sniper is OP”, and “I can’t fight a Heavy bot as a Scout” issues
Tuned Sniper spot finding algorithm to generate more diverse locations, partially addressing the “Predictable Sniper camping spots” issue
Soldier bots are more careful to not fire rockets that will explode on nearby geometry and kill them
Fixed a bug where bots tried to heal from a Dispenser being carried by an Engineer
Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the “BOT” tag
Added more bot names as suggested by the TF community
Simulated emotion would be an idea as well. If you’re killing a particular bot more often, then the bot should irrationally pick you as a priority even though other priorities make more sense.
MILFandCookies
(MILFandCookies)
#25
Bump! Cool thread.
This is only going by what I remember, so it may be inaccurate:
- Bots would run in a straight line from objective to objective making themselves an easy snipe target
- None of the bots used their knife or pistol as a means to gain a speed increase
- None of the bots used the walk function, to sneak up behind players [without making a sound]
- They aimed like a pro, moved like a complete nub - no jump crouching, duck spamming, lean spamming j/k
- On volcano - none of them performed the very very basic “trick” jumps [ east bunker ]. Probably too much to ask
- I dont recall tac shields being used, but I could be wrong here.
- Bad at picking the biggest threat in the moment
- None of them used the Railgun & Blaster combo in close combat
Im sure a lot of this stuff is too difficult to emulate, and wouldnt apply to brink anyway.
XVI_the_Great
(XVI the Great)
#26
[QUOTE=MILFandCookies;207728]Bump! Cool thread.
This is only going by what I remember, so it may be inaccurate:
- Bots would run in a straight line from objective to objective making themselves an easy snipe target
- None of the bots used their knife or pistol as a means to gain a speed increase
- None of the bots used the walk function, to sneak up behind players [without making a sound]
- They aimed like a pro, moved like a complete nub - no jump crouching, duck spamming, lean spamming j/k
- On volcano - none of them performed the very very basic “trick” jumps [ east bunker ]. Probably too much to ask
- I dont recall tac shields being used, but I could be wrong here.
- Bad at picking the biggest threat in the moment
- None of them used the Railgun & Blaster combo in close combat
Im sure a lot of this stuff is too difficult to emulate, and wouldnt apply to brink anyway.[/QUOTE]
This is completely wrong (And I don’t mean this in a demeaning/rude way.)
*Bots jump and strafe in an erratic manner when heading towards objectives.
*Bots use the pistol, but not the knife, to increase speed.
*Yes, they aim like pros, but GDF bots move during combat, and are especially dodgy. Strogg bots, however, simply do not understand how to dodge, other than usually futile attempts at dodging grenades (Although the GDF bots fail equally as hard when it comes to dodging nades).
*Too much to ask, these trick jumps were invented by players after the game came out/ bot AI complete, were they not?
*Tac shields are used more than annoyingly. My friend and I often comment on the horrible bot use, such as shielding a medic making a spawn host, which actually makes the medic move becuase the tac shield blocks the corpse. They also seem to simply thrown one every now and then.
*They heavily prioritize aircraft, then vehicles, then infantry, then deployables. You’ll notice how as soon as you step into an aircraft all vehicles stop what they’re doing and focus fire on the aircraft.
*Yes, they do, although GDF bots always miss. They do no-scope at close range (And I’m beginning to suspect they don’t scope in at all, bots can snipe with any weapon BUT a sniper weapon.)
Trust me, I’m on the 360, it’s bots bots bots all the time. And it’s fun, these bots rock.
MILFandCookies
(MILFandCookies)
#27
[QUOTE=XVI the Great;209376]This is completely wrong (And I don’t mean this in a demeaning/rude way.)
*Bots jump and strafe in an erratic manner when heading towards objectives.
*Bots use the pistol, but not the knife, to increase speed.
*Yes, they aim like pros, but GDF bots move during combat, and are especially dodgy. Strogg bots, however, simply do not understand how to dodge, other than usually futile attempts at dodging grenades (Although the GDF bots fail equally as hard when it comes to dodging nades).
*Too much to ask, these trick jumps were invented by players after the game came out/ bot AI complete, were they not?
*Tac shields are used more than annoyingly. My friend and I often comment on the horrible bot use, such as shielding a medic making a spawn host, which actually makes the medic move becuase the tac shield blocks the corpse. They also seem to simply thrown one every now and then.
*They heavily prioritize aircraft, then vehicles, then infantry, then deployables. You’ll notice how as soon as you step into an aircraft all vehicles stop what they’re doing and focus fire on the aircraft.
*Yes, they do, although GDF bots always miss. They do no-scope at close range (And I’m beginning to suspect they don’t scope in at all, bots can snipe with any weapon BUT a sniper weapon.)
Trust me, I’m on the 360, it’s bots bots bots all the time. And it’s fun, these bots rock.[/QUOTE]
- Not when Ive played them they dont… spec them and they run in a straight line. They simply do not emulate the way human players move b/w objectives unless youre a complete nubcake.
- Cant say that Ive ever seen that happen… they even run with the Hyper/Oblit, and that in itself is bad enough.
- The point was the movement and aim should match. And I dont know what your standards are regarding movement, but my opinion is they were terrible.
- The bots were brought in after the game was released. And we were doing those jumps since version 1.0 on PC. The only reason I said it would be too much to ask is, because they struggle enough moving properly b/w objectives let alone doing trickjumps.
- Like I said - bad at picking the biggest threat.
- Yes they do what? rail in close? or rail and blaster combo? Theres a difference
The latter is a style that requires very quick weapon switching from rail to blaster back to rail in close.
Given that the developers want to blur the lines b/w single player and multiplayer in Brink, its pretty important that their bots for the game, emulate exactly what a decent human player would do. Otherwise, the players who play bots all the time 
will find that its a completely different experience online. And as someone who rarely plays anything singleplayer - I would absolutely LOVE if they could make their bots ultra realistic… hence my critique of the etqw bots.
MILFandCookies
(MILFandCookies)
#31
lol yes point taken, and yes its was taken into consideration while responding to the dudes post 
XVI_the_Great
(XVI the Great)
#32
[QUOTE=MILFandCookies;209409]* Not when Ive played them they dont… spec them and they run in a straight line. They simply do not emulate the way human players move b/w objectives unless youre a complete nubcake.
- Cant say that Ive ever seen that happen… they even run with the Hyper/Oblit, and that in itself is bad enough.
- The point was the movement and aim should match. And I dont know what your standards are regarding movement, but my opinion is they were terrible.
- The bots were brought in after the game was released. And we were doing those jumps since version 1.0 on PC. The only reason I said it would be too much to ask is, because they struggle enough moving properly b/w objectives let alone doing trickjumps.
- Like I said - bad at picking the biggest threat.
- Yes they do what? rail in close? or rail and blaster combo? Theres a difference The latter is a style that requires very quick weapon switching from rail to blaster back to rail in close.
Given that the developers want to blur the lines b/w single player and multiplayer in Brink, its pretty important that their bots for the game, emulate exactly what a decent human player would do. Otherwise, the players who play bots all the time will find that its a completely different experience online. And as someone who rarely plays anything singleplayer - I would absolutely LOVE if they could make their bots ultra realistic… hence my critique of the etqw bots.[/QUOTE]
Are you taking on Hard bots? ETQW is the only game I’ve seen utilize actual behavorial differences when changing difficulties, ie on Easy they won’t notice their partners getting stabbed, walk with AR out, straight line, etc.
Shiv
(Shiv)
#33
and this is for you XVI the Great
it seems pretty obvious to me that the 360 bots got a tweak as i agree with what has been said by milf, i am on pc.
Stroggafier
(Stroggafier)
#34
Bots a.k.a. AI, is all about replacing predefined / binary decisions with more human-like guesses and partial-decisions and opportunity taking. What this might mean is that AIs have a scoring or weighing system for deciding what action to take at any given moment. Scores are assembled based on situational characteristics such as proximity, strength of combatants, being targeted, available resources, prior exectution and history of failed actions (akin to learning), imperative, and perhaps a few other factors. A number of possible actions are then compared and ranked, with the highest priority taking precendence. This would make the AI highly adaptive and not prone to repeat mistakes and repeatedly failing actions.
SD likely had to balance the speed of bot decision making against the complexity of the AI algorithms, i.e number of factors to consider.
What I’m reading in this thread is a list of decision modifying factors that are very worthwhile when considering an action.
I’d like to suggest that an even more flexible approach would be to have the algorithms be external parameter driven and that the priority weighting also be external parametric. This would allow developers to make easy/quick changes to AI logic, tweek the AI based on ongoing gamer feedback, and allow swapping one set of parameters for another set - creating a larger collection of combat “gambits” that could be swapped or cycled. e.g. pile on the objective, versus defend the spawn point, or, perform a back rage action (pincer strategy)
Nail
(Nail)
#35
tweek the AI based on ongoing gamer feedback
bad idea imo, they’ll get nerfed to oblivion
better idea might be to analyze some competitions to actually see how people play properly, that way the bots (AI) would also teach people, part of that whole missing tutorial thing