A massive Fletcher rework (please read the whole thing)


(Eox) #21

[quote=“SzGamer227;146033”][quote=“Eox;145698”][quote=“SzGamer227;145692”]You know that thing that Fletcher does to Proxy, Kira, Aura, and Phoenix? Where he one shot kills you outta nowhere with a surprise sticky bomb? This would allow him to do that to… hell, every single merc besides Thunder and Rhino. ('°-°) Doesn’t that seem… slightly entirely too powerful?

Fletcher is definitely overpowered, but this takes him to a whole new level of overpowered.

I think it would be reasonable to reduce the number of stickies he can carry at once to 2, reduce maximum sticky damage to 90, and increase the cooldown by a second or two, but still allow him to have 3 stickies armed at a time. Less spammy and less powerful, but still holds true to the general Fletcher playstyle.[/quote]

In order to one shot you with a 100hp blast, he needs to direct hit you with a sticky bomb, which is far from being easy unless you have a predictable trajectory (the most common thing being “running in a straight line”). And since he surprised you, you would die anyway since you didn’t paid enough attention, no matter what was the merc encountered. Meanwhile, a Stickybomb can only deal up to 80 damage if its not stuck, in a very short radius, making damage decreasing extremely quickly if you are not right at the center of the explosion. It’s very easy to dodge sticky bombs if you stay at mid long range, and very easy to kill Fletcher from that position as well.

He’s far from being the ridiculously overpowered and game breaking merc that a lot of people want to make you think about.[/quote]

There is a big difference between being overpowered and being game-breaking. You might be confused as to where I think Fletcher stands on that spectrum. :l

I definitely think that Fletcher is overpowered. He has an ability that is nearly as powerful (and potentially just as useful) as a combat merc like Nader or Fragger, and has the objective capabilities of an engineer on top of that. If you can throw your stickies with any accuracy, you can deal a steady amount of damage to enemies from behind cover (and get the occasional stick that can often guarantee victory) without the delayed use of a cooked Frag or the 2 second delay of a Nader 'nade. You are also able to throw multiple explosives directly at an enemy with a minimally delayed detonation, which is extremely rewarding, makes up for the relatively low DPS output of his Stickies, and makes them more effective of a lead-in to close quarters than any primary weapon.

I did not hear a rumor about Fletcher being overpowered and pass it on here. I’m not just someone who has gotten killed by Fletcher a lot and came here to complain. I am someone who plays Fletcher frequently, hears people complain about how powerful Fletcher is, and can’t help but agree with them. Being able to carry three stickies at a time is a bit unnecessary and makes Fletcher’s ability, as people have said, really rather spammy. Reducing his max number of Stickies would hardly be a crippling change, it would just make Fletcher more reasonably powered when it comes to CQC and force Fletcher to use his ability a bit more sparingly like other mercs do.[/quote]

That’s where you are totally wrong. He’s very far from sharing the combat potential of Nader and Fragger. Fragger can pierce a defence or nullify a push with a simple cooked frag grenade, who have much better splash radius and damage, and are infinitely more suited for it : the time you’ll take with Fletcher to throw all of your three stickies, pressing the detonator and wait for the arming time to trigger will easly get you killed. A single huge blast will always be better than three smaller ones. Now about Nader, her Grenade Launcher is much better in direct combat (direct hit = instant damage : you don’t need to trigger them), with a better RPM, a slightly better radius and a way better firing range, while being as spammable as Sticky Bombs in mid air. Sure those deal a bit less damage, but they fly faster and won’t require you to switch to a detonator in the middle of a fight.

The DPS you can actually reach by throwing stickies is the happy value of… 100 (if you land direct hits). Even the Tolen MP has a better DPS. All guns basically outDPS sticky bombs without even needing headshots. And when you score headshots ? All guns reach a DPS above 200. A stickybombing Fletcher will be no match against a player with a decent gunplay : only his guns will make a difference. Now let’s talk about the guns. Shotgun, Shotgun, and Blishlok. Shotguns who are not even played in competition, because the metagame is mid to long range. The only primary left is the Blishlok who is highly controversial (some says it’s bad, some says it’s okay, few says it’s very good). Don’t get me started on the Empire-9 : it’s a machine pistol : even the one considered as the best machine pistol in the game is no match against a SMG. While I am at it : Nader’s Grenade Launcher’s DPS is acually 130 (if you land direct hits), with a way better range and the possibility to reach people around corners. Sticky bombs are sticky : you’ll never be able to reach someone around a corner as nicely as Nader or Fragger can. The corner game only works if your opponent is actually dumb enough to chase you.

Stickies are god awful in duels, and will only work against players who are distracted or are not precise enough. Just setting yourself at mid range is enough to allow you to kill him properly : at that distance, you can easly dodge, unless you are not in a clear enough area. And you don’t even need to fully dodge it : even if he damages you, the time he takes to throw the second stickybomb or take another weapon will be enough to kill him. The only difficult situation is when Fletcher is in an area he can exploit (with low walls, corridors and/or corners). In that case, just pick another path with good sightlines or evict him with Fragger or Nader.

Reducing the max stickies to two is an awful idea to balance a merc who is supposed to be versatile. Especially since the nerf is not deserved : there’s seriously nothing hard about fighting Fletcher if you know him correctly. That’s the real issue : very few people actually really knows Fletcher. People can’t even agree on the proper damage value his stickies has : you’ll see people saying 90, some saying 100, some saying 80. When I see so much misinformation about Fletcher all around the internet, I’m not even surprised that not a single person actually knows how to fight him.

Real values are 80 on the ground, 100 if stick, 100 self damage.


(PleasantWheat) #22

A common change I have seen people suggesting is to make it so that the stickies can only be detonated after they stick to something for a half sec or so. Personally I think this would put him a little more in line with the other objective specialists, having to use his stickies more like traps than air burst grenades.


(Eox) #23

Way to go for killing a whole merc. A forced 0.5 seconds wait will just remove a bunch of his offensive capabilities. We already have two defensive engineers, three when Turtle will be out : we do not need another one.


(triteCherry) #24

Regarding the grenade launcher, the timer for nades is a very big deal when compairing her to Fletcher. Fletcher has two less grenades but he has a LOT more control over his explosives then Nader does, even if she can bounce grenades the timer allows a lot of reaction time unless at extreme distances…which also gives a lot of reaction time.

Just wanted to point that out.


(Eox) #25

[quote=“triteCherry;146130”]Regarding the grenade launcher, the timer for nades is a very big deal when compairing her to Fletcher. Fletcher has two less grenades but he has a LOT more control over his explosives then Nader does, even if she can bounce grenades the timer allows a lot of reaction time unless at extreme distances…which also gives a lot of reaction time.

Just wanted to point that out.

[/quote]

Fuse is 1.7 seconds if I refer to that link : http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Nader. Not that short, not that long either.


(Jesus) #26

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;23854”]
This will effectively turn Fletcher into a lighter Fragger, with less health, more speed, and the ability to repair. These are all subject for discussion but what do you think?[/quote]

At least you are not lying on the fact that this is another fragger, and guess what we dont need another fragger. What do i think? i think in all honesty that its just a plain bad idea.
My three best merc are Fletcher Phantom and Sparks they already nerfed two of those, dont give them bad idea, I’m already scared for a possible nerf on Fletcher that will ruin him too since apparently they like to fuck up merc with unique playstyle. With all those shitty ideas like this in the end the game will be a fragger/proxy/Aura only game. Get off Fletcher back he is fine as he is


(triteCherry) #27

I’m really surprised you picked Sparks instead of Phoenix.


(SzGamer227) #28

[quote=“triteCherry;146130”]Regarding the grenade launcher, the timer for nades is a very big deal when compairing her to Fletcher. Fletcher has two less grenades but he has a LOT more control over his explosives then Nader does, even if she can bounce grenades the timer allows a lot of reaction time unless at extreme distances…which also gives a lot of reaction time.

Just wanted to point that out.

[/quote]

Yes, thank you.

@Eox: This was the point I was trying to make about Fletcher’s Stickies being an effective lead-in to close-quarters combat. Unlike other grenades, you can fling them directly into an enemy’s general vicinity at close range and be confident you’ll deal damage. Fletcher may not be able to bounce stickies off of walls, but he is well able to throw a Sticky around corners without being in an enemy’s line of sight for more than a split second. This is also the big difference between Stickies and guns: To get 100 DPS with a gun you have to put yourself in a position where the enemy can be dealing just as much damage back, but if you fling Stickies as you leap across a doorway, you can deal considerable damage to an enemy without giving them any workable window of time for them to return fire without abilities.

You can explain all you want, but you won’t change what I have come to understand from my considerable amount of experience with Fletcher. I may not be a master, but 87 hours of gameplay as Fletcher is plenty of time to figure out what works and what doesn’t, and (imho) some of the things that work work a bit too well. No amount of words you have to say on the matter is going to make me see differently, so you’ll just have to settle with our difference of opinions.


(KattiValk) #29

Fletcher is a strong merc as he is right now, almost a little too strong really. The only changes I’d suggest for him would be at most a very slight nerf to sticky resupply rate. He’s incredibly fun as he is right now and I’d be loath to see him morphed into some one hit wonder tool like a less effective Fragger with engi perks.


(TheVulpesFox) #30

No


(Eox) #31

Of course they’re strong in indirect combat : it’s the whole point about using stickies. Take this out and nothing remains. Stickies will already get you killed in duels, indirect combat is the only situation where you can expect something. Complaining about that is like complaining about Vassili killing you from afar.

If you see Fletcher leaping across a doorway, first you shouldn’t be there, and second you shouldn’t fight back : you don’t have the time for that, you have to be fast and get out quickly. You are complaining about the whole point why one would play Fletcher here : controlling indoors areas, corners and chokepoints. If you fight Fletcher in his playground he’s strong, if you fight Fletcher outside of it he’s not.

Once again, if Fletcher is around a Corner or behind cover, you stay back. It’s seriously not that difficult. Fletcher is extremely dependant of the map.

Okay, that’s your opinion, if you think you’re fine with it it’s all that matters. Don’t expect me to change my position either though.


(Szakalot) #32

Fletcher’s stickies are definitely weaker than nades, I’d take a grenade launcher on Fletcher over stickies any day.
Short summary of stickies:

  • One shot 100hp mercs
  • Can airburst stickies in precise locations
  • Can throw multiple stickies quickly on unsuspecting opponents and detonate at once
  • Can setup sticky traps
  • Stickies are very limited in range, in order to get long-range throws Fletcher has to commit to forward long jumps, long range throws also take good 2 seconds of setup where Fletcher is vulnerable
  • Stickies are slow and require setup, making Fletcher vulnerable to bumrushing
  • Stickies have poor AoE, its very hard to score multikills on stickies, unlike nades&fragnades
  • Stickies cannot be thrown around corners, only above obstacles

Overall you get a merc that is very strong in CQC, especially indoors; with multiple weaknesses outside of this area, and poor primaries. Fletcher can be difficult to play against, esp. at low skill levels where throwing a sticky is generally easier than getting direct nader hits, or well timed fragnades. As the skill level goes up Fletcher finds themselves increasingly vulnerable to organized pushes, and opponents that exploit long range advantage. Finally, Fletcher is extremely good on 7v7/8v8 pubs where chaos rules, but an organized 5v5 makes him a bit lackluster, which is why people tend to pick bushwhacker over him.


(shreked) #33

Let fletcher be fletcher


(Naonna) #34

Only real reason to complain is if you main medics outside of sawbonez.
Being single-sticky-killed and the resulting perceived lack of counterplay is what upsets people when facing a decent Fletcher. (Don’t chase him.) As many have stated, keeping out of his range is easiest. There’s no difference between Fletcher sticking you and being headshot by a sniper. Don’t complain about a lack of counterplay: it’s what ruined phantom.

The only real change I’d like to see is to make the stickies not 1shot mercs such as pheonix. Drop the damage by 15 and his ability will still be a deterrent and retain the majority of its utility. 1 sticky on a slightly-damaged medic will still result in a kill: Just not in a fresh 1v1 head-on.


(Only_Use_Me_Lazer) #35

Fletcher is definitely a powerful merc, and while a nerf may be called for, anything above a slight one would probably be too damaging to his playability. Keep this in mind though when you say he’s fine; in an execution game Fletcher is capable of killing the entire enemy team with one detention, not by trapping them, but by coming behind and spamming them. Do not mistake what I’m saying, if the enemy is grouped together with no rear guard you should be able to kill most easily, but for a non assault to get ALL of them in one shot, that seems OP.
The only thing you could reasonably do to the stickies in a) slightly increase cooldown, b) reduce by one, but probably decrease cooldown, or c) put a slight delay in the time from when you press the button to when he throws (could be good, but could easily make him crap. It should however increase strategic play, and decrease offensive).
Outside of that, anything will likely ruin the “free hack” that is Fletcher into someone not worth using.


(TH3_DUCK_H4CK3R) #36

Fletcher is not crazily overpowered, however he is definitely one of the best mercs in the game; the only thing that should really change is his price (and perhaps up the price of the other really good mercs). Fletcher’s bombs are really good if you know how to use it properly, spamming them every 8 seconds probably won’t get you far in a game with people over level 3 (the stickies are fine as they have a decent skill ceiling). He has lower health than every since assault and all fire support (except Kira), so that is probably the main reason why he isn’t crazily OP or an assault under-miner. Anyways up the price a bit 5k+ (some other mercs too maybe) and no need for any crazy nerfs and this would likely create more damage and won’t really fix anything.


(sgtCrookyGrin) #37

no merc is better than others, each has a strength/weakness, FLetcher’s weakness is ranged engagements but with a game fast paced like Dirty Bomb, you will find Fletcher not trying hard to control the engagements -_-


(Jesus) #38

I’m really surprised you picked Sparks instead of Phoenix.

[/quote]

Nice one @triteCherry but in fact i was playing a lot phoenix too before and spark was my choice because it was allowing me to say f*** off to vassilis and snipers that wanted to get my ass but since the last update i obviously switched since the offensive capability has been chopped off for the sake of bad player who couldnt kill such a squishy merc (even if not a lot people think so theylll change their mind with the upcoming mp nerf) .
I was mentioning those three cause they are the one displayed in the stat, i play pheonix a lot more now since he has a much better offensive potential.
People will say “but she is a medic she shouldnt be able to attack” but by that logic no one should be able to help up either except medic, for me they just destroyed a merc that had a special hybrid and unique gameplay making her boring just because a bunch of whiny pussies who couldnt get a right grip on how to play her and so if they cant be good with special gameplay merc then no one should.
There was like a handful of good player with sparks that made her looks op so it wasnt right but for a merc like Nader who is a killing machine in the hand of anyone its totally okay, i’m very salty about all of this.
I totally dont agree with the “medic should just revive heal and die” because thats totally boring and untrue when we see other medic like phoenix or Aura. But anyway for me Sparks is now the phantom of medics. She is becoming plain boring for me.