A few tweaks to make both Javelin and fragger better in comp


(noonenew) #1

so I do feel that both fragger and javelin have been being picked at around the same rate (with one being banned more commonly that the other). I’ve felt javelin to be a niche merc from the start and I don’t really feel that niche is for me. I preferred fragger’s nades and nader’s nades to her rocket when compared to anything but javelin at release because of the fact that they can be charged silently or in the case of nader instantly too. these changes focus on fragger and Javelin despite me mentioning nader.

first up I feel it’s important to look at how fragger and Javelin should work:

fragger: should be a point man. player slayer. start the fight with your nade then push in and tank damage for your team. once the push is complete he should be able to go over to a popular route that leads from spwan back to the choke and time a nade to take out one or two of the enemy team so that the next fight is easier or the enemy team decide to wait for the rest of them to respawn (depending on how many where killed by the spawn nade and the subsequent bullet trading that could happen from the spawn nade)

Javelin: Javelin should feel a bit like fragger but should not be as effective as he is at what he does. However Javelin has the advantage of doing large damage to objectives and giving ammo. due to the fact that the cooldown on a rocket is 75% longer without recharge and still 52 (ish) % longer with the augment the rocket should be more potent than a nade as javelin also has less health. her rocket should be highly audible and dodge-able but has a larger aoe and a direct hit instagib potential.

tweaks:

both: can you actually fix the explosive bug that you mentioned in 1.0’s patch notes as I feel the bug has gotten worse if anything. nothing but walls should block the explosion (not players not equipment and not a tiny tube on the floor).

fragger:

  1. Increased hp to 140. (so he can tank for his team a little bit better
  2. even if aura is on 1hp and is within the area to take the full 170 damage of a nade she will no longer be instagibbed. the nade can’t kill and gib in the same shot

javelin:

  1. javelin now takes 20% more damage while charging a rocket (you could try this on a test server and tweak the numbers here). this should make javelin worse at being able to use a rocket on one person so that she must pre-charge the rocket
  2. Increased the time it takes to pull out a rocket by 20%. this is so javelin will find it a little harder to pull it out in a 1v1 going bad for her.
  3. Increased inner rocket aoe so that it now holds it’s 215 damage (was 200). until 2m of area of effect (was 0.1-0.5m I don’t know which one). so that the rocket holds its damage for longer (the damage increase is so it can kill rhino with the unshakeable augment)
  4. Increased outer aoe to 4.5m (was 4.1m). this (when paired with change 3) should make javelin better at killing groups

Just as a side note I’d also like to mention 1 thing I’d like to see happen to nader and another2 to thunder

nader:

  1. reduced nade launcher rpm by 20%

thunder:

  1. removed slow effect on the concussion grenade (maybe lower cd to 18s or something so that it’s still usable)
  2. increased health to 170

(HadronZodiac) #2

Yes what she needs is more nerfs atm

(sarcasm)


(STARRYSOCK) #3

One thought I had for javelin, why not give her guided only and make her stationary while she fires her rocket? Would help set her apart, and that way we wouldn’t have to take all these excessive measures to stop her from popping around a corner with a charged rocket


(bgyoshi) #4

The rocket charge time would have to be removed if this happened. One second of standing still trying to fire into a crowd means dead, always. You would be relegated to blind firing only, which at that point you might as well just not play Jav

This was already done when Fragger was nerfed from 150 to 140. The sheer fact that he can’t be killed by a sniper headshot made him too strong so he was nerfed to 130 specifically so that snipers could kill him.

This would require a change in how all explosives work. Gibbing is based on overkill damage, so you would have to change it to target specific set points or remove it entirely, and removing gibbing is just a bad idea. Medics need to be countered somehow


(Meetrock) #5

I’ve been playing Jav the last new days a lot, the only I thing I’ll say here is she’s perfect as she is now. She doesn’t need to be buffed or nerfed.


(HadronZodiac) #6

Increase headshot multiplier then…


(bgyoshi) #7

Raising the headshot multiplier increased the about of gibs caused by headshots which was a big problem. It was changed to avoid this some time ago


(PariahDog) #8

Would be easier to force her to be on the ground while charging. Between the slowdown and the inability to hop should be enough to keep her from pulling sudden rocket to the face bullshit.

This is a good thing. Snipers are bad for the game. If it was bullshit for me to get in your face and do the same with a shotgun, its more bullshit for you to do it from the other side of the map where you cannot effectively fight back.


(bgyoshi) #9

Considering that Fragger was the uncontested strongest 5v5 merc in the game, no it wasn’t

Even when snipers were able to one shot him at 150, he was still on every comp team because 150 was just too much health to overcome

Lowering him to 140 was to make him a little easier to kill. Lowering snipers to 130 damage on a headshot was to offset their effectiveness. The result was Fragger dominating comp even harder because there were now zero counters to him.

Lowering him to 130 made him weak enough to finally be a balanced pick. You no longer automatically lose by leaving him out of the roster. Bumping him back up to 140 and out of sniper range will just make him the top choice again, and once more an auto-loss if your team is Fraggerless against a team with one. That or he’ll just be an auto-ban in every FACEIT match, which doesn’t help either.

130 HP and can die to snipers is the best way to keep him.


(PariahDog) #10

One of the cancer rifles can 1 shot Thunder who has 30 more HP.


(henki000) #11

If you can revive, it’s not dead. Thats why medics are so OP in dirty bomb. You can position yourself behind walls and barricades, where you cant be gibbed by sniper. And then there is short immortality when revived (which can be pierced by snipers of course). Use body block and tap revive mechanics.


(HadronZodiac) #12

140 / 2 = 70 = no merc will be insta gibbed, so not sure what the problem is


(Your worst knifemare.) #13

Then there would be Fragger who already does this with corner nades.


(DarkangelUK) #14

Fragger has to cook his nade to have it explode in your face, so he has to hold it for 3 - 4 seconds? if he just releases it then the fuse has to countdown before it explodes. Ok cool, have Jav’s rocket have a 3 - 4 second windup time before it fires since we’re comparing.


(bgyoshi) #15

2 seconds is the cap, and that means it explodes in hand

The real charge time is about .5 or .75 seconds, it just feels like 4 because DB is fast paced with average TTK around .3 seconds

140 - 130 (headshot max) = Not dead, that’s the problem.


(HadronZodiac) #16

i really think ur ignoring me, i said then increase headshot multiplier slightly

if lets say the moa do 140 damage in headshot, it wont insta gib any merc, so theres literally no problem u are pointing out that is valid


(bgyoshi) #17

Oh right

Unfortunately, while they won’t be instagibbed at full health, they will be after a few plinks of any weapon first

You’re also getting into the territory of leaving Thunder and Rhino with too little health, and making snipers too strong once again.


(HadronZodiac) #18

In my opinion thats fine, its way harder to take out a smaller merc with a sniper rifle soo


(PariahDog) #19

Then taking a risk and getting up in your face with a shotgun should do the same thing. Whats that? The community thinks that bullshit? Then doing the same thing from across the map is just as much if not more bullshit.


(HadronZodiac) #20

oh my gard guys its confirmed

we need to revert back to before 1.0, the amount of triggered noobs wholl kick the living shit out of you for not pocketing them is too many to count