A few 'quality of life changes' to nader


(chickenNwaffles) #1

I understand that Nader’s launcher is more of a “area denial” sort of weapon, but sometimes it doesn’t feel like it does it’s job that well at even that, and even then area denial can only go so far in a game where you have to kill people to win. After playing her constantly in a ton of pugs I feel like she can be very weak at times, so here are a few changes that aren’t too drastic that would put the oomph back in nader.

Right now she only gets 4 grenades right off the bat, (only 2 more than what fragger gets), and her nades seem puny when compared to a single fragger nade. A whole barrage of 4 nades fails in comparison to the instagibbing, cookable Fragger nades. I would like to see her grenade capacity upped by atleast one, or the regeneration time upped a bit. Also, maybe a second look at her splash damage radius/damage might be needed, as direct hits only do 80 dmg, and are very difficult to hit against people who are constantly moving/strafing, because of their wonky physics in this game.

Speaking of direct hits, I find it weird that when you kill someone with a direct hit with Nader’s launcher, you don’t instagib them, but you can instagib several people with a Fragger nade. Certainly it takes more effort to hit someone directly with a grenade launcher shot, and it takes more than 1 nade to kill classes besides aura and proxy, so you won’t find yourself constantly direct hitting people and racking up easy kills. It really would make direct hitting people both more potent and rewarding if it instagibbed like Fragger’s nades.

Martydom, the ability that is the bane of people who look before they leap. Although it takes roughly no skill to use marty, it is an ability that made Nader’s body basically off limits from a close range right? Well, not anymore, as splash damage once again listened to the pub players and added the ability to make the fallen grenade on her body ‘vanish’ if you gib her body fast enough. It’s really frustrating to see someone just cancel your martyrdom by knifing you, and when playing against smart players, you will almost never get a kill with martyrdom to begin with. This change they did is too drastic and doesn’t punish players enough for not thinking about which body they are trying to knife. In the last instance of the beta that Nader was in, I found myself making conscious decisions before after I killed a nader to NOT go to her body or else it was certain death, now if I’m fast enough, I can simply go to her body and knife her without any punishment. You should be punished for knifing a nader like an idiot. It’s martyrdom for a reason boys.

Nader is a very fun defensive class that has the ability to suppress teams and hault pushes, while on offense has the ability to disrupt bonez-fragger pockets. However, the low damage output of her nade launcher makes most of her poke useless and the lack of instabigging on direct hit kills makes her even less potent. If SD truly wants the competitive scene to be full of varity and choices, they should focus on buffing other classes to make them on par to fragger (of course not his killing potential).

I would also consider buffing Nader’s health to 110 hp or so, to make her on par with dueling other mercs. As it is, she feels incredibly weak in dueling.

#ReBuffVassili2015 :penguin: :penguin: :penguin: :penguin:


(Humbugsen) #2

In my opinion fragger needs a further nerf. (longer time to cook and lower grenade travelspeed)

Agree on your third point though, doesn’t really make sense that gibbing cancels martyrdom


(Protekt1) #3

I think gibbing cancelling martyrdom is one of the good things about that ability. It already happens very fast so if someone manages to gib before it goes off, why not.


(Zenity) #4

Nah, it takes a few seconds. There is no chance for it to go off unless somebody misses their knife slash (or forgets about it). I guess making it go off faster would be another option, but right now it’s really just a gimmick that has no real impact on gameplay (very little on pubs, I expect none in competition).

I feel like they played it a bit too safe with Nader, which is understandable considering how much the community was already complaining about her before she was released. But it’s a shame because surprisingly I find that she’s actually a blast to play with (no pun intended). Much more fun than Fragger IMO, but not nearly as capable yet. I have fun with Nader but it’s a struggle with her every time, and when I switch back to Fragger it kind of feels like god mode.


(Szakalot) #5

I like the change to fuse time ; which makes her nades exclusively AoE denial, rather than a direct combat weapon; esp. against good players when hitting a nade directly can be very difficult.

I’d rather not touch cooldown or max nade capacity, its already pretty fast, maybe we can up the power a bit:

  • damage & splash radius
  • RoF of the launcher
  • distance at which nades bounce off directly-hit targets (too long)

I also think martyrdom was fine as it was, but don’t really mind the change either, its a gimmicky ability that will find its use a few times per game, but nothing really impactful.


(tangoliber) #6

I don’t have a problem with this. Martyrdom isn’t really meant to kill… it’s meant to delay. It’s essentially another landmine that the other team needs to avoid…one more thing for them to “Defuse” while in the middle of chaos.
Forcing someone to gib you is really a net gain for your team, and a net loss for the other team. It’s one less second that they could be reloading or healing or planting…etc.


(ragnak) #7

I didnt play with her/against her to be 100% sure but so far see seems fine to me. The only thing i would change at the moment is +10hp and nerf to fragger grenades so there would at least to be a reason to take her over fragger, there isnt one at the moment.


(Amerika) #8

I think Fragger’s nades should never gib. It would be a good nerf that doesn’t affect his gameplay too much while still making the nades valuable.

The grenade launcher does NOT need any buffs. As it is right now is good due to it’s ability to lock down an area and cause a lot of worry but not be a room clearing tool. In the past it was a room clearing tool that you could use while rushing in then instantly gib a team with martyrdom. Now both the grenade launcher and martyrdom is in a good position since you won’t be leading in K/D’s most likely but you will be pretty damn important on some of the maps areas.

This game needs to get less spammy, not more. Increasing the nades, the aoe and gibbing would make her the default pick of half the server which is what we witnessed in the past and it would promote the suicide bomber playstyle.


(Szakalot) #9

[QUOTE=Amerika_KC;526570]I think Fragger’s nades should never gib. It would be a good nerf that doesn’t affect his gameplay too much while still making the nades valuable.

The grenade launcher does NOT need any buffs. As it is right now is good due to it’s ability to lock down an area and cause a lot of worry but not be a room clearing tool. In the past it was a room clearing tool that you could use while rushing in then instantly gib a team with martyrdom. Now both the grenade launcher and martyrdom is in a good position since you won’t be leading in K/D’s most likely but you will be pretty damn important on some of the maps areas.

This game needs to get less spammy, not more. Increasing the nades, the aoe and gibbing would make her the default pick of half the server which is what we witnessed in the past and it would promote the suicide bomber playstyle.[/QUOTE]

MOAR POWER + LONGER COOLDOWNS

For ALL abilities : )


(Glottis-3D) #10

[quote=szakalot;526572]moar power + longer cooldowns
[/quote]

moar power + longer cooldowns

power + longer cooldowns

longer cooldowns

cooldowns

cool


(INF3RN0) #11

I’d much prefer more power based on some skill input. For nader it would be rewarding the direct hits, which I’d enjoy seeing more reward involved. The default use of the nades being for CC/chip damage and the skilled air-shots being an alternative means for fragging. That’s why you got a primary SMG anyway. The unfortunate part about abilities is that they are extremely askew in terms of consistency, difficulty, and complexity.