A Comprehensive Javelin Re-Work

[hawkeyeguy99]

Because the character is currently built for little to no skill easy kills and literally mind numbing top-scoring support potential with no effort required at all from the player. She’s in desperate need of a complete re-work that removes her insanely low-skill high-reward playstyle.

Rocket launcher changes:

1. Remove insta-gib capabilities on all targets above 20 health.
   Reasoning: Currently Javelin’s rockets can both down and gib players instantly far too often taking away any counter-play possibilities. There is no chance for support opportunities from enemy teammates and turns the rocket into a “shoot and forget” easy kill machine. With this change, the insta-gibs on players that are not already damaged or low is removed, providing the enemy team a chance to rez their teammates and aligning her more with the rest of the mercs on the roster in kill potential.

2. Add insta-gib on all targets above 120 health on direct hit only.
   Reasoning: Adding this instagib capability allows for the rocket to still be a formidable ability, but requires skill in aim to be as effective. 120 health targets is most of the characters in the game, but removes the ability to instagib any of the tankier characters, but still downs.

3. Remove ability to to charge rocket while jumping in the air.
   Reasoning: The strategy of long-jumping around a corner and charging the rocket as soon as Javelin is airborne is too powerful and far too often nets a free, easy kill without any chance for counterplay or dodging. It’s an easy kill with little to no risk. Removing the ability to charge while jumping in the air removes this strat and requires more forethought before firing the rocket.

4. Reduce damage to 150 from 200
   Reasoning: Javelin currently outperforms every assaut character in the game with her high impact rocket. This should be changed to reflect her status as a fire-support over assault. Reducing the damage of the rocket to 150 removes the instant kill for a few of the tankier mercs while still destroying most of the roster in one hit. This brings her more in-line what role she is supposed to fulfill and keeps her viable for kills.

5. Increase blast size (not sure the stats on this? Can someone help here)
   Reasoning: with the other changes in order to keep Javelin viable, a slight increase of blast size would compensate for the removal of cheese techniques to keep the character viable.

Ammo Ability Changes:

1. Remove all automatic ammo giving
   Reasoning: Javelin’s ammo giving ability for teammates and herself is the only passive ability in the game that benefits other players with no effort required at all from the player. This is not a good design element and should be changed to reflect the other abilities in the game.

2. Add 4 individually activated “charges” to ammo giving ability, activated with “e” key and each charge giving 1 (or 1 half full depending on balance needs) clip of ammo to all surrounding mercs and half clips (or less again if needed for balance) to Javelin.
   Reasoning: This change requires Javelin to put thought into giving ammo and adds a management aspect to the ability. Either incredibly large amounts of ammo can be given quickly to a large group (fastest in the game) or parsing it out in smaller amounts than other mercs. It removes the passive playstyle of fire-support for Javelin and forces the player to actively try to earn the support XP.

I think Javelin could have a place in DB, but not in her current state. Her skill floor and ceiling are both insanely low with incredibly high reward and don’t match the nature of DB being a high-skill game across the board. She could be a good addition for noobs to learn the game but I don’t think she needs to be so insanely effective and cheap at her job.

[bgyoshi]

Alternative idea: Increase rocket cooldown to 1 minute minimum, instead of literally everything you suggested
Reasoning: Rockets are worthless if they can’t kill a rhino. “Instant” gibbing was already removed and only works on low-HP players anyway for all the reasons listed. You can still long jump or run around corners for “free” kills, but wait for them. The rocket is still useful, but you have to wait for it. When you want to use it, you have to decide; kills or objectives? When you “instant” gib, it means something, but you don’t get to spam it so often that it becomes annoying. It turns rockets into utility, not attack. It fixes the weapon without changing gibbing, damage, jump charging, or blast size. It just makes the weapon work.

The ammo giving was already nerfed massively in both the amount of ammo and experience it gives. And in tandem with making her rocket a once in awhile thing, changing her ammo giving to a manual e mode like everyone else would be fine. But if all you’re doing is making the rocket worthless, making ammo manual at the same time would just make the class nearly unusable. Having to manage both a pointless rocket and an aura-ammo that gives half the amount of ammo as everyone else makes both Arty and Kira straight up better than Jav in all cases. At least with the ability being passive, you’re encouraged to group together with your teammates so you can continuously pump them. With it manual, there’s no need to be close to teammates. You’ll find one person, max-spam your ammo (since you only give half-size clips, you have to use all 4 to give 2 clips), then leave. Likewise, players will probably just opt to use it on themselves without thinking of others. As it stands already, playing Jav, I run out of ammo on myself plenty. But as it stands, being a mediocre ammo ability is offset by the power of the rocket.

I offer a trade off: Strong but infrequent rocket, poor ammo ability
You offer a straight nerf: Poor rocket, poor ammo ability

If we’re upset about automatic auras, might as well require Aura to push “e” when someone is standing near the aura station. That way they have to pay attention to the station instead of dropping and forgetting it.

[Mr.Cuddlesworth]

She’s fine…already got hit with the nerf hammer before.

[LifeupOmega]

1. is whatever idc

2. is whatever idc.

3. is dumb as shit considering any other ability can be abused as such on much lower cooldowns for similar results.

4. if you can’t remove a rhino/thunder from play it’s bad for a 30s cooldown.

5. blast size should never have been reduced in the first place.

6. the ammo is already the worst ammo ability in the game, no need to butcher it further.

7. no.

[hawkeyeguy99]

Alternative idea: Increase rocket cooldown to 1 minute minimum, instead of literally everything you suggested
Reasoning: Rockets are worthless if they can’t kill a rhino. “Instant” gibbing was already removed and only works on low-HP players anyway for all the reasons listed. You can still long jump or run around corners for “free” kills, but wait for them. The rocket is still useful, but you have to wait for it. When you want to use it, you have to decide; kills or objectives? When you “instant” gib, it means something, but you don’t get to spam it so often that it becomes annoying. It turns rockets into utility, not attack. It fixes the weapon without changing gibbing, damage, jump charging, or blast size. It just makes the weapon work.

I can get behind this idea. Currently the “insta-gib” nerf is broken though. I’ve been insta-gibbed as a full health Fragger which means that either the nerf was reversed or it’s buggy again. Mainly, Javelin just shouldn’t be able to insta-gib a large section of the enemy team as nobody else on the roster can in 1 hit. Arty requires really good prediction, Kira good aim/predition, Skyhammer godlike prediction, and Fragger doesn’t insta-gib (as far as I know). My main changes were to bring her to a more reasonable place regarding her kill potential but I can get behind your idea here.

If we’re upset about automatic auras, might as well require Aura to push “e” when someone is standing near the aura station. That way they have to pay attention to the station instead of dropping and forgetting it.

My main problem with Javelin’s ammo ability is that it’s the only ability in the game that requires you to do NOTHING in order to get free XP. Even Aura has to be smart about where she places her station, it’s not just free healing. That’s all I’m trying to change, not nerf her ammo, just make it so that you have to actually put some sort of thought into being a fire-support instead of everything being handed to you.

3. is dumb as shit considering any other ability can be abused as such on much lower cooldowns for similar results.

Except that any other ability doesn’t insta-gib, and you can’t run and activate. She’s still the strongest in the game in regards to this type of kill. She shouldn’t be.

6. the ammo is already the worst ammo ability in the game, no need to butcher it further.

7. no.

As I said in regards to @bgyoshi, I’m not trying to nerf it to make it worse, just trying to make the player activate their brain in some way to play the character correctly as a fire support.

[STARRYSOCK]

Sadly I don’t think there’s much you can do to a merc who’s very idea doesn’t fit with Dirty Bomb. In that regard her current iteration is probably the best it can be.

I had an idea for making her explosive damage transmit through walls though. At least that would set her apart from nader and fragger, because as she is she’s far too similar to them, and no variable tweaks are going to change that