A change to Rhino

(hoyes) #1

Lets face it,Rhino is not very enjoyable to play.This is probably because he is a very slow merc, in a fast paced game, which means you always feel so vulnerable despite your 200hp, as you cannot dodge of escape areas effectively. His minigun is powerful in certain situations, but weak in a lot, namely medium to long range. It also has a long spin up time and causes your already slow movement speed to become even slower, forcing you to take Nitros as an augment, to leave you vulnerable for less time. Now some people think he is fine, since with a good medic he can be unstoppable (Health station Rhino is sickeningly powerful on defense).But this means he is too dependent on Medics and really isn’t worth the time and effort to actually play him, since the reward in the overall is not very good. I want to suggest some changes to him to make him more enjoyable to play, and making him a viable character in the overall:

-Reduce spin up time of the minigun by 100ms
This change is just here so you are less vulnerable when you want to fire the minigun, and so it is not as important to have Nitros.

-Increase Rhino’s movement speed by 2%
People like to play fast mercs, so bumping up his movement speed would mean you won’t feel so vulnerable and slow all the time. You would still be the slowest character in the game, but only by a bit. This change also applies to when holding the minigun.

-Reduce max spread of minigun by 40% and reduce spread increase by 5%
The idea SD had for Rhino was that he was supposed to give suppressing fire against enemies, effectively making him a human wall that the attackers have to get through. This change would allow him to give the suppressing fire, being extremely effective at spraying bullets down range as the spread will not be as bad as before. This will also give more purpose to Ice cold as it would be much more effective to spray and pray, and would give you more time to do so.

These changes in the overall would make Rhino much better at what he is supposed to do, suppress enemies and be a general annoyance to attackers if they want to push an objective. What does everyone think of my changes?

(Someordinaryguy) #2

I do agree Rhino is kinda situational and very medic dependant but I think he should be better on his own and a bit weaker f.ex. on a health station. Dunno how doe, anyone ?

Your idea for more accurate minigun is nice, would also promote 1-2s bursts with a short break apart from spray&pray imho

(BananaSlug) #3

I will solve small mystery for you, I was talking with exedore and he said “shotgun is to break the position and minigun is to hold the position” he also said he doesn’t need to be changed. He is pretty bad at holding the position, I would drastically decrease spread, but also add recoil make it heat up much faster, it would make soo man with good aim could kill few persons until it overheats but wont be a killing machine that can kill entire enemy team by himself

(Eox) #4

I am really worried with the last change you suggested. The Minigun is a killing machine with the highest DPS in the game, and when I say highest I am not kidding : 300 DPS ! It’s enough to almost instantly shred anyone as long as you are close ranged with the minigun spun up. That huge damage potential is counterbalanced by a very large spread and a slow movement speed when in use, limiting its use to enclosed areas. The minigun is very easy to counter when Rhino is exposed. However if you put Rhino in areas like Underground’s first objective, it can become very hard and frustrating to take him down, especially around an health station.

When I usually find a Rhino, it’s a low level player who have an insane trouble to track me when I start to play with walls around him. However I sometimes encounter a higher leveled Rhino, and when his team is supporting him enough he can hold an objective almost by himself. Rhino is definitely a defense oriented assault and made to hold objectives. Seeing a Rhino that somewhat knows what he’s doing in a server full of low level is oftenly a huge moment of hilarity since newbies seems to have an insane trouble to fight against him.

What would happen if you lowered the minigun spread then ? Rhino who get a more offensive use. Rhino more versatile, it’s nice right ? However he could become incredibly painful and frustrating to fight against. Why ? Rhino have 200 hp with a 300 DPS minigun. Any other merc have less health with a primary weapon that will have a DPS between 120 and 135. Of course you have abilities to take into account, but against that 300 DPS weapon you would likely not have the time to pull anything out and take him down. As it is, a fight against a Rhino that you encounter around a corner very rarely end well if the Rhino have an half decent aim. However if that range gets raised with the same level of DPS and no effect of counterbalancing I really suspect that Rhino would become a huge source of frustration. I definitely don’t want to see Rhino instantly gunning down everyone from mid range, especially when such a huge spread decrease means that the minigun could become much more viable when it comes about headshots, raising its DPS even more if you are good.

If you lower the spread that much, please consider to lower the DPS or add more limiting factors. I have nothing against versatility, but in Rhino’s case I think he should stay in his niche.

(LifeupOmega) #5

Or we just redesign him completely because he flat out doesn’t fit into the game’s pace or design and is possibly the most boring thing SD will ever design in their lifetime. Giving him buffs will just end up with a horrible mid-range killing machine.

(Dieu-Sama) #6

Oh ffs . . .

RHINO IS PERFECTLY FINE AS HE IS, HE IS ABSOLUTLY NOT “THAT” MEDIC DEPENDENT (TESTED AND APPROUVED EVERY DAY ON LVL 20+ EU SERVERS WITH TOP NOTCH K/D On BOTH DEFENSE AND ATTACK). LEARN TO PLAY. END OF “”"""""“DEBATE”""""""""

(hoyes) #7

@Dieu-Sama you understand that just getting a good k/d doesn’t mean jack in this game since skill will allow you to do well with any merc. When Thunder was weak as shit, I always used to get posotive k/ds , when using MK46, in min 10 servers. It was just because I did well when I played him for some reason, even though he was bad. Okay if you think he is fine, but truly, he provides nothing to this game, and is very unjoyable to play, thus I ,made suggestions to improve him.

@Eox I do agree, so maybe make it so the minigun has a slower rpm of maybe 200? Something that is able to reduce its colossal dps. I didn’t think about how drastic these changes would be to his viabiltiy if they were not accompanied with a nerf. A ROF nerf would definitely be needed. Maybe also reduce the duration of which the minigun can be fired by a second?It would maks ice cold better at least.

(Dieu-Sama) #8

he provides nothing to this game

He provides a great assault merc who can carry a team in both offense and defense if played properly.

and is very unjoyable to play

That’s THY opinion. Mine is that Rhino is very enjoyable to play.

thus I ,made suggestions to improve him

More like to destroy him. Any of thy suggestions along a DPS-nerf (a less than 300 DPS minigun ? Ridiculous) tradeoff, and he’ll have virtually no advantages over Thunder.

(hoyes) #9

@Dieu-Sama Let me rephrase what I’m saying.

Nothing ‘new’ to the game

Rhinos ability is a gun, a gun that is niche and situational, like a shotgun, which Rhino already has. Sure you can get kills out of these areas, but if you were to play any other merc you would have got more kills, efficiently. Let us compare Rhino to another assualt merc, Fragger.

Fragger provides a way to kill enemies from range without exposing yourself for too long, and is great for pushing a a line. What does Rhino provide? A slow, high hp merc that has a very good weapon at close range, but seems somewhat contradictory due to how slow he is, thus making him defensive, making yoj have to position yourself correctly in order to make the most of him.

You are postioned great, you have a direct LOS on the obj, and anyone that steps in your way. A fragger notices you are there due to your ridiculously sized hitbox. He throws are frag which brings you down to 20hp, to which you start spraying at him until he dies. You now have a total of 180hp to regen before you are not at a disadvantage with any merc. If you don’t have tough that means you have to get away from your position, and try to dodge oncoming fire until your regen even starts, OR WAIT FOR A MEDIC. You killed one fragger, you lost 90% of your hp, you now have to wait at least 30 seconds before your hp is at max unless you have a medic.

How is that not a medic dependent merc?

(Szakalot) #10

if you consistently get naded as rhino you are too predictable.

a good rhino player will not be: he can camp a corner with mini and then push you with 200hp and a 100 damage/shot shotgun surprisingly fast. there is nothing you can do.

Rhino is fine:
easy to use
hard to master (exceptional game sense required)

@Dieu-Sama I saw this guy wreck good players on minlvl20. a good medic makes such a rhino a very tough character to beat

(Dieu-Sama) #11

[quote=“Jokder;202005”]@Dieu-Sama Let me rephrase what I’m saying.

Nothing ‘new’ to the game

Rhinos ability is a gun, a gun that is niche and situational, like a shotgun, which Rhino already has. Sure you can get kills out of these areas, but if you were to play any other merc you would have got more kills, efficiently. Let us compare Rhino to another assualt merc, Fragger.

Fragger provides a way to kill enemies from range without exposing yourself for too long, and is great for pushing a a line. What does Rhino provide? A slow, high hp merc that has a very good weapon at close range, but seems somewhat contradictory due to how slow he is, thus making him defensive, making yoj have to position yourself correctly in order to make the most of him.

You are postioned great, you have a direct LOS on the obj, and anyone that steps in your way. A fragger notices you are there due to your ridiculously sized hitbox. He throws are frag which brings you down to 20hp, to which you start spraying at him until he dies. You now have a total of 180hp to regen before you are not at a disadvantage with any merc. If you don’t have tough that means you have to get away from your position, and try to dodge oncoming fire until your regen even starts, OR WAIT FOR A MEDIC. You killed one fragger, you lost 90% of your hp, you now have to wait at least 30 seconds before your hp is at max unless you have a medic.

How is that not a medic dependent merc?[/quote]

  • First of all, the minigun is certainly not that much a close range weapon, you can perfectly gun down quickly someone past mid range with 5 - 6 bullets bursts, I do it ALL THE TIME

  • Fragger provides a way to kill enemies from range without exposing yourself for too long Every 17 secs, while being defenseless on thy own, after that you’re stuck being a barely better (if really better) Stoker/Skyhammer. With the minigun, you’re a constant threat, unless you’re overheating but that’s virtually never happen.

  • As Szakalot (my medic buddy :3 ) put it, if you’re consistently get naded, either by Fragger or Nadder or Stoker, you’re a bad Rhino. Plain and simple; Of course you’ll eventually get naded, but if it happen too often, you just don’t know how to play Rhino properly : you’re too predictable, not aggressive enouth, not mobile enouth (yes yes, you can be very mobile with Rhino . . . WITH THE MINIGUN OUT) . . .

In conclusion : I think you think Rhino is defective because you don’t know how to play him properly. But he’s not. And it’s fine you don’t know how to play him : nobody can be expected to be good at every aspect of the game, let alone every mercs. I suck with Kira, I suck with Phamtom, I suck with Red Eye, but never I’ll call any of them unjoyable or defective because you said it thyself : with the proper skills, you can squeeze their niche out and always do great with them, even on lvl 20+ serv’, even against very skilled classic Jack-Of-All-Trade Frag/Bush/Saw/Sky/Vas players . . .