LvL up progress - Achievements - the never ending story?

(Bangtastic) #1

I want see a long time motivating lvl up system. That means - you need to play rather a long time to hit the maxlvl, referring to BF2.
Achievements that need long time to finish. Sure there will be some feeding achievements, but the main ones should prove your dedication to the game. In other games, every noob has pretty much the same as a pro player. Whether you do long time achievements, idk like 10k, 100k kills, 1k, 10k plants
The main ones can be really ridicously huge. Still basic ones for everyone, but only in the phase, as long as the average playing time of a average player.

IMHO it can take pretty a long time. Lets say at least 400 hours to reach maxlvl.
When ppl get maxlvl and already has pretty much everything, the motivation of achievements wont have any effect anymore. Most players probably move to the next game then (my experience with bf3 players). Ranks that have meaningful names, which justifies the amount of played time. This is a must in my eyes.

Even when ppl already hit the maxlvl after that XXX hours, you can offer for that “hardcore veteran” a new lvl package for the lvl^^ There could be 10 lvl packages overall, everyone with 150/50 depends on how often you want to let ppl lvl up. I think there is also potential to get some money out of it^^ You know see some player with LVL 6/10 45 (fancy badge)^^
It could also be stay subtle, that you fool ppl in the beginning, make them believe that there is a rather low max lvl… but when hitting it ppl will see that is just the peak of the iceberg^^ You can have many micro steps, or a few big ones. I dont care, as long as it takes long.

Lets say 2500 hours then for the whole ultimate maxlvl of maxlvls

Wow this would be freaking awesome^^ Im sure there will be enough ppl who want to accomplish this xD The fascination of seeking for the maximum^^ I think many ppl get addicted to it^^ The longer it takes to hit max lvl the better imo.

Actually i would prefer kind of stats/skill based lvl system, which can you drag back and forth, some rating shown in your profile beside your current lvl.

Any other lvl system/achievement suggestion, thought, criticism?

(Nail) #2

W:ET reset to 0 every campaign

(Bangtastic) #3

unfortunately i think SD has already decided that, but this can still count for unranked servers :smiley:

(INF3RN0) #4

Lvl80 wizard lfg dungeon raid. But actually I think that the more you level will be tied into rewards for the item store maybe. At least I would assume that would be a good way to go about it.

(Nail) #5

cash out your coins at end round, no carry over

persistance of unlockables is debatable imo

(Hyperg) #6

Just the idea of the ribbon / medal / whatever showcase (and the possibility for comparison with other players) is a powerful enough driver to get ppl grinding those achievements. There have been tons of pdfs and talks and debates about how “achievements” (as in repetitive, simple actions) appeal to gamers. Such devices usually fail to indicate skill (maybe just the amount of time invested) but if you manage to snapshot some of the player evolution curves which are deemed to indicate combat mastery, with indicators in the area of lifetime accuracy, consistency of won encounters under fire, something which would place them actively in combat, maybe you can model an achievement system which would track how close regular players get to those snapshots. Echo might help in that area. And speaking of accuracy, I know a few bf3 players who fail to use the suppression mechanism properly because of how important that accuracy number on their profile page is to them, but a game which encourages suppressive fire, basically rewarding you points for missing on purpose shouldn’t place a big accuracy number on the profile page for ppl to brag with :)). Whole diff topic tho.

Given the game needs to keep you playing and paying, I don’t mind a level system, even if it only indicates the ability to stay indoor.

(Runeforce) #7

The problem with ranks (let’s assume there are no gameplay benefits to them) is still that some people play the ranks, instead of the maps.

(Dormamu) #8

I hope that we will play DB 10 years from now, get expansions, remastered editions and a lot of mods transformed in full f2p games, everyone with his story and roadmap, and a DB game that is constant expanding in every direction on MP and SP… so, i propose an infinite number of levels, ribbons, achievements, etc. :smiley:
If you have a hard time imagine that, let’s say DB is Linux and after some years we will have Redhat, Arch, Slack, Ubuntu and DeBian <3 :D, somehow the same but with different flavors :smiley: (after the release => linux client asap :D)

(Mustang) #9

Speaking of leveling up, there needs to be a progress bar showing percentage to next level up, preferably something like this.

 lvl 28                   28,254xp        lvl 29
25,000xp  ====================---------- 30,000xp
(acQu) #10

I think what Nail said is very interesting: “cash out your coins at end round, no carry over”. I think this would fit the planned session level system. It all would kinda all happen at the micro level. Of course it is debatable “what” is unlocked and what that “what” does in the end for you, for example your character, your outer appearance (skin) or an ability. This doesn’t neccessarily have to be cash or coins earned, it can simply be XP or anything else. Basically this would be like an achievement system as per session basis.

For example let’s say skin X is Y cash. You can reach Y cash only at that round, because next round it is deleted. Better would be XP actually, but the basic idea is interesting.

(Bangtastic) #11

oh i think i missed the point with my start of the thread XD nvm

agree on your point

I would still like to see a Makro-earning system wrapped around it for the long-term purpose. questionable is how a player will be rewarded and what should be the reward ?

(Whhaayy) #12

i hope they´ll remove all this lvling stuff. its just not needed a game should motivate through good mechanics good gameplay and competition and not through endless lvls weapons and perks dont make db become a cod or bf or even worse a warrock or pay 2 win or something!

(Bloodbite) #13

I’d have to disagree with you on that, on a certain level. 2 Examples of how inconsequential rewards encourage gamer addiction:

[ul]
[li]Valve/Steam and their achievements. Quite simply the best implementation of icon-reward-for-stat-building addiction in the industry. It doesn’t hurt when this kind of thing translates into promo rewards like the seasonal only achievement quests in Killing Floor that unlock those seasonal character skins.[/li][li]World of Warcraft… The need to level up combined with the status that holds within the community. Mighty powerful mechanic within Blizzard’s premiere instant messenger.[/li][/ul]

While the real rewards should be restricted to per session XP leveling, it wouldn’t hurt to have a purely stat representative leveling system. I think it’s safe to say it can only be described in one way, a Career leveler. ETQW had it, albeit largely ignored by everyone that played it.

Combine that background career system with Steam style pat-on-the-shoulder achievement milestones… it could be a very good enhancer to the game. Not just for casual players too. How many serious/pro players are going to spot some absurd achievement and try working towards it.

It happens during the seasonal things in Killing Floor where the better than average players come out of the woodwork to unlock… whatever the seasonal thing is for unlocking. There’s nothing stopping us/SD from coming up with achievement type things that actually enhance the gameplay, and perhaps even lessens the learning curve for the uninitiated regular CoD/BF gamer. It can be done.

The weapon leveling system in CoD isn’t a bad thing, so long as it doesn’t restrict you from unlocking attachments/skins… purely looking at it as a stat leveling system. The BF system of unlocking gear, that I definitely agree with you, it has no place in this game.

(Volcano) #14
(j4b) #15

Maybe show highest ranked players on the gamelauncher.

(Volcano) #16

like a leaderboard j4b?

(acQu) #17

And in contrast the typical “hardcore FPS shooting fan” ^^ => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXasCjUTNpE

(Pytox) #18

what if you would get a reduction on items in the shop if your rank is higher :tongue:

(Whhaayy) #19

[QUOTE=Bloodbite;437103]I’d have to disagree with you on that, on a certain level. 2 Examples of how inconsequential rewards encourage gamer addiction:

[ul]
[li]Valve/Steam and their achievements. Quite simply the best implementation of icon-reward-for-stat-building addiction in the industry. It doesn’t hurt when this kind of thing translates into promo rewards like the seasonal only achievement quests in Killing Floor that unlock those seasonal character skins.[/li][li]World of Warcraft… The need to level up combined with the status that holds within the community. Mighty powerful mechanic within Blizzard’s premiere instant messenger.[/li][/ul]
[/QUOTE]

  1. i dont have anything against achievements but if you have to buy new weapons perks etc like in cod or something with xp or ingame or real money (and thats what im feared of) game just would suck (just like other f2p games like warrock and stuff)
    im happy if i get 2 weapons per class (primary and secondary) arent able change them and have to play with the same weapons like everyone else and the game should make me addict by beeing a good game and not by buying stuff with ingame or real cash just like good old games for example moh:sh, quake 3 or even if i dont like it cs

  2. wow is an mmorpg and has nothing to do with competetion i dont have anything against wow players and i played some mmos by myself but you cant compare a mmorpg with a i hope so competition shooter its like compare quake3 with brink

(Bloodbite) #20

[QUOTE=Whhaayy;437243]1. i dont have anything against achievements but if you have to buy new weapons perks etc like in cod or something with xp or ingame or real money (and thats what im feared of) game just would suck (just like other f2p games like warrock and stuff)
im happy if i get 2 weapons per class (primary and secondary) arent able change them and have to play with the same weapons like everyone else and the game should make me addict by beeing a good game and not by buying stuff with ingame or real cash just like good old games for example moh:sh, quake 3 or even if i dont like it cs

  1. wow is an mmorpg and has nothing to do with competetion i dont have anything against wow players and i played some mmos by myself but you cant compare a mmorpg with a i hope so competition shooter its like compare quake3 with brink[/QUOTE]

I don’t like the idea of unlocking weapons based on XP/tokens either, but being completely F2P we should be ready for that possibiltiy when it comes time to testing that kind of stuff. We have to at least consider the possibility of “if DB goes down that road, how can we make it work without it feeling like a grind/scam?”

As for WoW … that game has everything to do with marketing the experience of feeling special when people level up through XP grinding. I certainly don’t ever want to see a hint of grinding in this game, but WoW has sold itself very well, and made what was ‘before’ a daunting world of RPG stat keeping, skill tree building and XP grinding become a newbie-friendly experience within their structure. Nobody’s comparing actual gameplay. XP means nothing of real value in life, but it’s a powerful psychological mechanic in games when implemented ‘right’. Plus any distraction away from the impression that “this game is too hard to learn” is something we all should think about. ETQW and Brink to a lesser degree suffered because of that falsehood

The Career system, whether it’s XP or F2P token based, is going to be about sustaining the game’s profitability as a Multiplay title. Competitive stuff aside, it’s the pug element that is going to dictate how long this game survives. XP leveling in both a long term career setup and the real value per-session system… both share a common goal in making the game feel more accessible and gratifying more often.

How all that is woven into DB is going to take some open thinking. Partly because a straight up FPS approach is most likely going to be branded as a CoD clone (for that particular mechanic), and partly because DB deserves something as innovative in this area.

I think it’s worth looking back to the RTCW/W:ET era. Leveling per session/campaign system was innovative enough to feel very satisfying… not just tacked on. That kind of “this is why I play this over any other FPS” mentality is what we should be trying to figure out.

And remember, when CoD introduced their leveling system in multiplay it seemed bizarre to alot of FPS’ers because XP leveling belonged to RPGs.