I have seen a lot of people posting about the maps having too many points to cover (defensively), this is something I definitely agree with. Trying to setup a defense with only 5 guys on the current maps is very difficult, seems like you just spread too thin no matter what you do. In games like rtcw / et, they were played competitively 6v6, is DB any different?? why can DB not be played 6v6?? To be honest I really want 5v5 to be the standard, but with the way the current set of maps are, it seems 6v6 would be the better option. Obviously there are definitely flaws in the current maps, mainly the last stages of waterloo/camden/whitechapel, this can’t be fixed with an extra player on each side. Anyways just trying to get some feedback from other players to get their perspective on this.
5v5 or 6v6 for competitive play??
I find both modes functional. I actually find 5v5 to be much more fulfilling because of the greater challenge at having a stable defensive layout. 6v6 seems to be much less difficult to defend, while in a 5v5 your bound to see more of the objectives. This is only based off of the pugs I have played and even then the teamwork was completely on the fly with no set strats or positions. I imagine that once the game get’s a competitive scene people will invent a lot of strategies that we are unaware of. To be honest though I really think that the main problem is the very short spawn times, which makes all those alt routes become more visible simply because you never have time to keep track of when the enemy team respawns. If anything were to be done differently for SW mode, I would suggest increasing the spawn timers by up to 5seconds.
Oh yes inferno that was supposed to be in my post. Spawn times are a big issue, did not mean to leave that out.
There are definitely spots on certain maps where I’m like “really?? 5 people supposed to cover ALL this?” even with a “floating” or roaming team of 2 sweeping from area to area, it really hard.
If the spawn times were set to a timer this would add a whole new strategy to both offense and defense and I think the way that it is now needs to be changed to attract more competitive strategy.
Played a couple of 6v6 pugs and they are quite enjoyable. The only thing I will say though is, if you are someone hoping for a DB LAN in future… Keep this game at 5on5. Logisitics of having that extra PC setup is a nightmare. (Check crossfire news back when they switched the LAN to 5on5 for more info)
This being said, I would prefer 5on5.
The problem I have with 5-v-5 is all the classes in DB are viable, so with 5 players on a team that’s 1 of each class in theory, which doesn’t seem very practical to me. You can get away with 5 in ET because 2 of the 5 classes are useless. I’m not sure what the optimal class mix would be with only 5 players, and where that leaves Soldier and Recon, who I guess will be the ones left out.
Having said that, what Potty says above is a major issue. LANs set up to host CS / COD events are going to be geared towards 5-v-5, trying to get a 6-v-6 game into these events is going to be difficult, as ET has learned over the years.
Better to start on the basis of 5-v-5 and only consider anything else if it’s absolutely necessary.
The maps as they are now not fit for small teams. It is hard to defend roots with 2 people if the enemy is rushing this. At the moment it will end in camping objects to not loos them.
Also no spawnwaves for the defence is really bad, you’re going to be spread out a bit with either 5v5 or 6v6, so you end up dying at different times hence spawning at different times which can lead to the attack getting an almost free pass to spawn camp you with ease when you’re spawning alone. We had this happen quite badly on LB when playing against sid other week, though was made worse due to them being a team and us not 
5 vs 5 mininum I guess because there are 5 classes 
I think the lowest amount possible is the best (5v5).
I’m willing to check either or out. Though, the points made about 5v5 are pretty legitimate thoughts. When you start thinking about LANs and Tournaments, the 5v5 makes way more sense. The thought I’m having is if you have 6 players that maybe defense could turn to be to easy. But, at the same time I could be totally wrong.
Depending on how many we get to show up for tonight’s Tuesday Night Fights, I’ll let Splash Damage know which games/maps to look out for as extra Echo info.
Also, the last couple of Tuesdays could be used as good reference.
That’s what I was thinking. Since the chokes on the maps are so tight in certain areas having a 6th person could turn it into Brink mode where no teams are able to get passed the defense.
I would also go with the new trend to keep 5on5. I agree Valdez that 6on6 at the current state would be better to defend certain stages, but the problem is rather that one good player isn’t powerful enough and the map design itself. Remember ET/QW it was possible for a good player to defend one way alone, even against more opponents. At the moment you even have problems to face 2 opponents at the same time. One reason could be the missing tactic to divide the group of players that you always got a 1on1. So it was possible to fight against even 3 opponents at the same time. Somehow this isn’t possible in DB yet.
I am in no way a hardcore comp player, not even close, but my 2c would say 6v6.
6on6 is definitely more enjoyable overall from my experience with RTCW and ET. Quakecon 2005 was 6on6 but changed to 5on5 in 2006 for above mentioned logistical reasons.
The biggest problem with the current map size (team numbers aside) is the lack of fixed spawn times per side (e.g. 30sec for defenders, 20sec for attackers). The distance to objective in some areas is too big (almost Oasis like in terms of ET maps) and so not having the opportunity to take a defender out on a long spawn makes it extra hard for the attacking team.
As per nail’s comment, we need the ability to determine spawn timer type and intervals via server commands (ideally) to better support competitive play vs public play.
With the new “think enginge” that SD has, is it possible to run simulations with 5v5 or 6v6 and see how the maps would be laid out as far as spawn, kills, etc?
I like both.
5v5 definitely allows for tighter play, but 6v6 allows for more interesting strats IMO.
I’m more of a 5v5 person. It’s more attractive to sponsors, easier to manage, and forces superior teamwork/coordination (like sweeps etc) than just bunkering down with 6. 5 players is already kind of spammy with 6 it would be atrocious. Even in RtCW I thought 6 was a lot and the game evolved every year, I think if we played wolf now 6v6 you would see a lot more arti/panzer/nade spam than actual teamwork and shooting.
I remember it took a while in RTCW, ET & ET:QW respectively to find the best competitive format in terms of team size. I know several have already mentioned it but it was a constant evolution with in each game. The competitive communities had to take in to account the different maps, play styles, team sizes, weapons, classes etc. I remember some of the first matches I played competitively in RTCW were 8v8 then when my team joined TWL’s Leagues and they were a rocking the 7v7 format and everyone was tripping and flipped out but everyone calmed down after a season of that and most of the major leagues made the switch to 6’s which became the competitive standard in that game to this very day. That is not to say that 5’s didn’t have a place in that specific game for a while. I just think it will actually take time to figure out what works best for this game and might take some tweaking.
I personally feel 5’s looks best with the sizes/layouts of the maps we currently have on top of the current lineup of the classes/weapons we have. 5’s is gonna give most teams the challenge of establishing a good defensive setup based on a smaller amount of players and on the flip-side for offense provide a great combination of offensive pushes and strategy’s for teams to develop. That being said I can see 6’s working as well… just gonna have to wait and see.