With a Balancing Update in the near-ish future,

(watsyurdeal) #81

@bgyoshi said:

@watsyurdeal said:

Then the easiest solution would be increase the bloom, or have it go to max spread right away on the first shot, and reduce the spread recovery. So you can not spam it and hope to hit anything, but you are encouraged to wait between shots. As long as it’s pinpoint accurate from the hip for that “take your time” style, I’d gladly take it.

If I only have to wait 1/12th or 1/6th of a second before firing my next shot, and that next shot is going to hit that head no matter how far, I am taking it.

The same effect could be achieved by cutting the RoF almost in half, taking it from 180 to 120 or 100. That would reduce the spamability and “burst” damage while retaining it’s function as a long range weapon. It would reduce the ability to use it like a shotgun while not eliminating the close range capability. You could still run in to fights like you want, but you wouldn’t get punished for spamming as you suggested, and would instead just be forced to be slower with it. If you want to encourage the player to shoot once every half second instead of every 1/3 second then make the gun shoot that slow by default.

I.E. the same suggestion but with the mantra of giving it a function instead of punishing the player for “using it wrong.”

It’s not a bad idea and would probably make people complain about it a lot less.

But then it’d just be the PDP, that’s my point, I don’t want another PDP, I want something that walks the fine line between the PDP and Dreiss.

(bgyoshi) #82

@watsyurdeal said:

But then it’d just be the PDP, that’s my point, I don’t want another PDP, I want something that walks the fine line between the PDP and Dreiss.

But it’s not

The PDP would have a higher RoF, a big penalty for hip firing, 7 less ammo per clip, and a longer reload time. PDP would be functionally different in that you can shoot it faster but have to scope in to do it, versus being able to run and gun.

The PDP would excel at longer ranges due to the damage boost, scope assist, and higher RoF. The Dreiss would excel at mid ranges due to the high RoF and low recoil, but worse at longer ranges from iron sights.

The Grandeur would sit in the middle being worse than Dreiss at short ranges due to the low RoF but comparable at mid ranges from the damage boost, and way better than the PDP due to hip fire. It would be better than the Dreiss at long ranges from the scope, but worse than the PDP due to the lower damage and RoF.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #83

When is the update tho?

(watsyurdeal) #84

@bgyoshi said
But it’s not

The PDP would have a higher RoF, a big penalty for hip firing, 7 less ammo per clip, and a longer reload time. PDP would be functionally different in that you can shoot it faster but have to scoppe in to do it, versus being able to run and gun. ,

The PDP would excel at longer ranges due to the damage boost, scope assist, and higher RoF. The Dreiss would excel at mid ranges due to the high RoF and low recoil, but worse at longer ranges from iron sights.

The Grandeur would sit in the middle being worse than Dreiss at short ranges due to the low RoF but comparable at mid ranges from the damage boost, and way better than the PDP due to hip fire. It would be better than the Dreiss at long ranges from the scope, but worse than the PDP due to the lower damage and RoF.

So a hipfiring PDP, if thats your solution I’d rather keep the grandeur as it is.

(ToffaPlus) #85

wishlist:
bigger move speed penalty on burst rifles
fix bolt cancelling
proxy mines don’t do full damage until armed
quick charge on phoenix
turtle shield begins cooldown when its broken rather than when its placed
heartbeat sensor only tracks when it has line of sight, otherwise static sonar-esque ping.

(GatoCommodore) #86

@bgyoshi said:

@GatoCommodore said:

Shotgun is easier to use than grandeur by miles since you have multiple pellets and big spread.

Perhaps easier to get a higher accuracy rating on, but for killing it’s pretty much identical. You center the crosshair on the body or head and fire.

oh yeah, just like every gun in the game.

the difference between grandeur and shotgun is that shotgun has spread and more damage per shot than any weapon in the game if you get all the pellets on target and is supposed to be used for close range

while grandeur is supposed to be used for medium-long range and not as easy as lets say M4 or Timik that you can just spray away. Grandeur is only good in the hands of experienced player. Ive yet to see newbie getting by with it without dying after their 3-4th kill.

let me tell you a story, in warthunder back months ago Tiger II(H) is the best tank in its tier, even with its high profile, slow, long side profile. Because most of the german faction players are good at sniping and Tigers are made to be sniper and pretty awful on brawling on urban maps.

fast forward to 2017, Tiger II(H) has been reduced to the weakest in its tier because they are now being put with British post WW2 tanks, American post WW2 tanks, Russian post WW2 tanks. And most of these post WW2 tanks either have some god tier AP rounds or Plasma Jet Shells.

Making it worse, Gaijin (the developer) decided to put some kinks on the already outdated tank to make it more unusable with weird stuff like burning transmission, imploding diesel fuel (no peneteration) and even more unusable when they decided to buff the planes ground pounding capabilities.

The german faction was left with no one to play because people are afraid of planes that shoots rockets and post WW2 tanks on enemy team.

Tl:DR a tank got nerfed because good players use it to its maximum capabilities, dev nerfed it based on people whining other people are too good.

Grandeur is good for long ranges or medium if you like, so-so on brawling.

Grandeur doesnt need any buff or nerf, and lets avoid the tragedy that befalls Tiger Tanks in warthunder.

(Melinder) #87

@GatoCommodore

Come on bro, you just made the most obvious mistake when balancing weapons. The “I’ve never seen a retarded player do good with it, so it can’t be that strong”.

Retards can’t do sh*t with anything other than a shotgun.

(GatoCommodore) #88

@Melinder said:
@GatoCommodore

Come on bro, you just made the most obvious mistake when balancing weapons. The “I’ve never seen a retarded player do good with it, so it can’t be that strong”.

Retards can’t do sh*t with anything other than a shotgun.

but that doesnt mean Dev should nerf a weapon just because people with good aiming skill are good with it.

that is my experience, i havent see a low level level good at playing grandeur red eye. They always pick Dreiss or just outright not picking red eye at all.

Even i rarely took out the grandeur just because i prefer playing dedicated sniper on a longer range.

(TheStrangerous) #89

SD should post a list of suggested WIP balance changes beforehand, much like TF2 did before Jungle/Pyro update.

(bgyoshi) #90

@GatoCommodore said:

but that doesnt mean Dev should nerf a weapon just because people with good aiming skill are good with it.

I’m not trying to get it nerfed. In my personal opinion it’s a pretty bad weapon and could use a buff. Shotguns are better than it at close range, ARs and PDWs are better than it at mid range, and the PDP/sniper rifles are better than it at long range. I dunno why anyone uses it at all. Wats is bound and determined to remove its long range functionality and basically make it a slug-firing shotgun with a range penalty.

@GatoCommodore said:

the difference between grandeur and shotgun is that shotgun has spread and more damage per shot than any weapon in the game if you get all the pellets on target and is supposed to be used for close range

I know. But the point is that you get close and put the crosshair dead center and fire to maximize pellet impact. With the Grandeur, you do the same exact thing; get close and put the crosshair dead center and fire. Like with shotguns, you don’t have to track the player all the time due to low RoF single shots. You only fire when your crosshair is aligned. Unlike with automatic rifles and PDWs, where you fire and sustain a bead on the target to maximize DPS, while “burst” firing to keep recoil low.

@watsyurdeal said:

So a hipfiring PDP, if thats your solution I’d rather keep the grandeur as it is.

That’s what it is now. The complaint is that people can spam it across the map or the “burst” damage is too high. So dump the RoF. Then it becomes a hip firing PDP you can’t spam.