Will the Cheating AI ever be balanced?

(Oschino1907) #21

[QUOTE=Bettik;334288]Do you see how you contradict yourself here? As I said earlier, they are bots, not people. Without AI equivalent to the human mind, the only way to make them more difficult is to give them cheats.

You have to treat how you approach bots differently than human players, that’s all. They are not impossible. They are just very difficult.

Ah, but it isn’t. Good news is that you’ve already found part of the solution - let people please themselves! :slight_smile:

As I said before, perhaps you could allow the option of setting a static bot AI level. We know that it’s based on number of human players and their player levels/ranks (average? highest?). That must translate in to a number somewhere. Let server operators set that number and keep it from going down or up throughout the course of play. Call it a “custom” game mode so that there aren’t any issues with unlockables/achievements being earned unfairly.

Actually - in case I’ve just put my foot in my mouth - is there any ability to do something like what I’ve just suggested already?[/QUOTE]

No not at all because i stated you often find them just staring off at nothing or as Pete_X_Nasty said just looking at a wall. How bout make them overall more aware of certain things in their surroundings rather then giving them 100% accuracy and practically inhuman reaction times.

Maybe if you read mine and others post you would have understood what i was talking about. I even recall some devs stating that they would look into the AI issues and possibly alter their “thought process(word i am using)” which controls what obectives they are out to do or priorities. Dont see how if they can do that, that they couldnt adjust their reaction times or accuracy while keeping them aware and fucntional members of the team helping to complete objectives.

Dont you see how you come off half baked?

(Bettik) #22

Sorry, Oschino1907. It really wasn’t my intention to offend you, though it seems I have. I guess I misinterpreted what you meant by “aware”. When you originally said to make them “more aware”, I was assuming that you meant to give them an unnatural ability to detect players that humans wouldn’t normally have while dumbing down their shooting ability. Effectively, trading one unnatural buff for another.

If all you meant was to increase their ability to sort of “patrol” an area and look behind themselves every once in a while to prevent sneak attacks being the cure to then taking away their unnatural shooting abilities, I would have to disagree. They would be too easy. Sure, they’d be more aware and take notice of you more like a human player would, but they lack the tactical programming (the real nuts and bolts of an AI that’s difficult to program) that human players do.

I was really only intending to highlight the statement I followed up with. In short, it’s much easier to develop “AI” that is “dumb” but overpowered than AI that more closely imitates how humans play the game. In fact, if they did emulate humans, it would be just as difficult, no? Are we not our own worst enemy? A stupid bot, though overpowered, has exploitable tactical weaknesses. Currently, as someone pointed out, you can often get the enemy bots to focus on the front lines while someone sneaks in the back and completes an objective right under their noses.

It seems to me that SD has the AI down just about as well as can be expected on a dynamic basis. They are trying to please everyone at once. My solution is to let us please ourselves. Give us full access to the parameters that set bot AI on the server level and, perhaps most importantly, lallow us to turn off the dynamic scaling up and down in difficulty.

(peteXnasty) #23

This does little for console players unless oican start my own game and have my own settings and somehow have 15 other people join

It’s fine for PC’s but on console, starting a private game typically doesn’t get you anywhere. We all simply join public matches where we have no control over game settings. On a rare occasion, the brink chat rom on ps3 (which we as a community have had to set up ourselves because the default method makes it impossible to find games worth playing) may have enough people in it to set up a 5v5. And those are a blast. It its rare a d otherwise, we are stuck with fun killing bots

I would prefer them gone completely from freeplay and the matchmaking altered to create less rooms, and fill existing ones regardless of rank

(AmishWarMachine) #24

Just an idea, but:

Instead of programming the AI to sit there and do nothing until about 10% health, at which point they become Flash the Sharpshooter… why not program them to become evasive when they’ve been caught off guard.

In every firefight, human players have two options, fight or flight… I don’t think I have ever seen the AI go the latter and attempt to take cover or use sliding to avoid fire.

Instead, they just flip around and hip-fire headshot me.

It’s frustrating to no end.

(StillBatusBrad) #25

Indicating that this awareness/speed/accuracy is a tangible, adjustable variable.

So, let us adjust it to taste:

GIVE US AI-SLIDERS!!:smiley:

If you won’t address the ‘team-mates are retards, enemy are terminators’ balance, give US the means to do so, please?

(NthLegion) #26

All I want is for the bots on my team to be the exact equal of the bots on the enemy team. I want the players to be the only variables in the match. Oh, I would also like bots to pursue the primary objective well before the timer hits 2 minutes.

Yes, the super accurate head-shotting bots are frustrating, but if my bots performed just as well, it wouldn’t be so bad.

(xBluntxForce) #27

Thats a great feature you included, but two things

1.What does that have to do with the bots impossibly fast reflexes?
2. Why is your response to the problem “don’t play with bots then”. Instead of actually addressing the issue? And thats not a solution, because thats under private game settings, and no one in this game has 15 other friends constantly available to play with.

But as a solution, I wan’t bots to just have a turn around time. I don’t care about headshots from the front because that can happen, and has happened, a lot with humans. But I don’t want to be insta-180 shot in the face. Is there a way to give bots a look sensitivity or something? It wouldn’t be as bad if i could actually see them turning around.

(Shinigami) #28

[QUOTE=Exedore;334012]Bots scale upwards when you have more humans on the opposing side, so yes they are very difficult against 8 humans… but that’s no accident. You’ll not be able to beat them on skill in a fire-fight, but you can certainly outsmart them with your abilities and coordinated teamwork.

In a way, 8 player Co-op on Hard is our ‘Hardcore’ mode.[/QUOTE]

Im sorry, but that is absolutely NOT true. The other day we were playing 8 vs 8bots and it got to a point where it just wasnt fun anymore. when we played on offense we breezed through the match. And when we defended it just became 10 minutes of shooting target practice. These bots need to be improved. or even better yet…make the lobby system so i dont have to log on into multiplayer to play against bots. I want to play against actual people, specially when even the biggest noob is more of a challenge than the AI.

Furthermore, I more often than not find myself in the side with the least human players. I would think that since the other side has more human players my bots would be competent. they never are…

(Ark_peasant) #29

One thing that could make the bots less of a problem would be rolling back their accuracy (for the console version only imo, a pad =/= a mouse, and everyone should be able to enjoy their game), and :

[ul][li]Automatic evasive/diving action : when shot from afar, slide to cover. If still under gun shots, slide again to cover (while shooting back at the same time). Need some tweaking though (when 2-3 are together, trigger a push - if it fails, ask for a 4+ push) to avoid super-effective suppressive fire.[/li].
[li]Run’n’gun tactic : force running and shooting at the time, bots often stay there when they’re shooting back at someone, instead of moving around/reaching for cover.[/li].
[li]Faster running/sliding-recovery speed : I know it sounds unfair, but it’s much better than perfect accuracy headshots AND it’s getting closer to how Human play online :[/li][LIST]
[li]fast reaction time[/li][li]prediction[/li][li]always sprint[/li][li]often pick the fastest path (human pathfinding > AI pathfinding)[/li][li]cover-finding advanced intelligence (using stairs/height or smalls obstacles+slides is not common for AI[/li][/ul][/LIST]Since you can’t ask your AI to predict the future, or find the perfect path, you can give it something to compensate.

Movement speed is not something you can’t overcome by practicing, unlike perfect accuracy it’s just a matter of having better prediction skills.

'was my 2 cents (as a PC gamer), I hope you guys on the 360/PS3 will get some updates soon =)