Will class requirements to complete missions come back to haunt us?

(Grimhound) #21

You can’t build teamwork into a game. You can attempt to force players to concede and play according to a structure you set within the game, but often they’ll come to resent and reject that. I am curious how Brink would work if it was a classless system where you can hybridize your character how you want to play it. One character. Tiers of abilities. You can do whatever you want within a set framework whenever you want to, and you can have saved loadouts of abilities you can swap between. The ability to make your own classes.

(DoHo) #22

[QUOTE=ThePilgrim101;293921]The Battlefield Franchise has always had classes that emphasize particular roles in combat (medics, engineers, anti-tanks, Support gunners, etc.). The PC series (aka “True Battlefield”) has always made sure that classes are balanced between themselves and the vehicles to make sure that, in most cases, diversity is better than unanimity.

However, Bad Company 2 broke many class boundaries and allowed different classes to have weapons and abilities previously restricted to other classes, which gave Recon soldiers C4 and an SMG, basically turning them into another class. It works overall, but the lines are so blurred that, for those that just go out and kill, everything is so similar.[/QUOTE]

Ah, okay, I understand what you mean. I can’t comment too much on the older BF games (1942 and Vietnam) because it’s been too long since I last played them. It may be that BC2 played to the lowest common demoninator too much (i.e. blended the classes far too much) and that’s skewering my view a little bit, but I think essentially my point remains. for example, Battlefield would appeal to me in the way that Brink does if it had classes for tank drivers and plane and helicopter pilots. As in, diversifying the classes way way more.

Brink levels the playing field by giving the classes access to the exact same weaponry, but then opens it right back up by giving the classes completely different abilities in regards to objectives. TF2 on the other hand opens up the game by having the very different classes, but then closes it back up by allowing anyone to complete objectives.

I don’t really know what I’m typing anymore, but I think I had a valid point. :tongue:

(Psi Brain) #23

I like games with distinct classes, its meant to help teamplay, which the entire game is based around. No amount of medics will get a bridge built.

(dazman76) #24

I honestly don’t think it matters - the resentment, that is. The entire game revolves around playing this way - if you refuse to do it, the whole thing breaks down. It’s a bit like playing football, but resenting the fact that you have to be in a given position doing a pre-defined job for the team. If that’s really the way a player felt, they wouldn’t be playing the game in the first place, surely? :slight_smile:

I’m not saying everyone has to enjoy playing objective-based team games - rather, I’m saying that if player X doesn’t enjoy what Brink has to offer because they don’t like completing objectives or making a team effort, they are basically playing the wrong game. They picked up some wine, when they actually wanted beer. Rather than resenting the game, what they should be doing is finding a game that fits their requirements for fun :slight_smile:

Or change a lightbulb.

(Jess Alon) #25

Because you can’t switch at all if you need to.

(dazman76) #26

Care to elaborate? :slight_smile: Confusing one-liner is confusing, and doesn’t seem to match any posts made so far.

(Grimhound) #27

You can change classes, but you can never enjoy playing as the class you have to change to.

Splash Damage has decided it’s better to only give you two options:

  1. Switch classes and lose all access to unlocks on a character.

  2. Say to hell with it and continue to just kill people until the clock runs out, since you hit Level 20 in 3 hours.

(dajfactor) #28

[QUOTE=Grimhound;294422]You can change classes, but you can never enjoy playing as the class you have to change to.

Splash Damage has decided it’s better to only give you two options:

  1. Switch classes and lose all access to unlocks on a character.

  2. Say to hell with it and continue to just kill people until the clock runs out, since you hit Level 20 in 3 hours.[/QUOTE]

I’m sure quite a few people will be jack of all trades and spend their points across all 4 classes.

(Grimhound) #29

So what THAT means is that the entire class system as it currently exists in the game was only added to gain a pseudo-MMO level of replay value where you’re forcing people to grind multiple characters just to be able to experiment. It’s artificial extension of the game. You only do that when you as a developer feel your game doesn’t have much replay value.

It kills any attachment a player has to their avatar.

(dajfactor) #30

[QUOTE=Grimhound;294475]So what THAT means is that the entire class system as it currently exists in the game was only added to gain a pseudo-MMO level of replay value where you’re forcing people to grind multiple characters just to be able to experiment. It’s artificial extension of the game. You only do that when you as a developer feel your game doesn’t have much replay value.

It kills any attachment a player has to their avatar.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. I know for a fact that I’m going to spend most of my points in one tree because I’ll be playing with people I know, where we each have designated roles and whatnot. People playing with randoms are probably going to have to more evenly distribute their points because you can’t really rely on random teammates to get the job done. Even then, you would probably have some different jack of all trades builds (focus on all universal abilities? or grab essential skills from each class and have a weaker overall presence?).

And let’s get real here, a lot of MMOs only give the illusion of build choice. For example, a rogue in WoW really only had 3 viable build choices in BC, despite there being 3 trees and multiple levels of talents.

(Jamieson) #31

Having played both of SDs previous games from release I can confidently say that this is not going to be an issue. Pretty much every game I have played in ET or ETQW has always had at least 1 objective class.

You have to remember that different people like different things, I suppose thats hard to understand if you have never played an SD game but its true. In ETQW you would find people who loved vehicles, people who loved to do the objectives or those who prefered to be medics or support classes.

One of the good thing Brink has going for it is the body types system. In ETQW or ET if you wanted to use the big weapons you were restricted to the Soldier/Aggressor class. In Brink this wont be a problem, expect to see Heavy engineers and medics as well as Soldiers. Therefore people wont have to limit themselves to certain classes just because they like to use one particular weapon.

I started out as an engineer in ET and then progressed to the other classes, Covert and medic were great fun and so was the soldier. In ETQW I started as a medic and had a lot of fun with most of the classes. In Brink I plan to play a heavy Soldier, the point is people will try different things.

(Nerfed) #32

I do think 5 points per class is quite low. Wasn’t the deal tho, that you can only equip 3 skills per class? If that’s the case, 5 points per class doesn’t seem all that low at all. The most you can upgrade a skill to is level 3 (with some skills capping at lv1). The most you could possibly spend on a single class (given that you only use 3 skills) is 9 points.

In my opinion though, it would be much better if you’d get 2 points per level up, with the downside being that you can only spend 1 point per class per level. That would give you a total of 40 points to spend. You are still restricted to a max of 20 points on a single class, but if you pick 3 skills for every class (even if they can all be levelled up to 3), you’ll still have 4 points left to spend on additional skills. What’s more, if one or multiple of the skills you picked can’t be levelled up, that’s more points you will have left.

(Linsolv) #33

Did… did something happen? Did I hit my head? How am I agreeing with Etek WHILE he’s trolling someone?

Incidentally, on the topic of “5 points per class seems low,” I posted this in another thread:

But not all points are equally useful. For me, for instance, I can name a lot of abilities that don’t interest me personally:

Universal - Grenade Shooting, Sense of Perspective, Sprinting Grenade, Silent Running*, Downed Fire
Soldier - Molotov Cocktails, Armor Piercing Ammo, Grenade Mastery, Extra Magazine*, Frag Blast, Grenade Damage
Medic - Adrenaline Boost**, Increase Supplies*, Metabolism**, Speed Boost, Improved Increase Supplies
Engineer - Extra Landmine
Operative - Sticky Bomb, Caltrop Grenades, Control Turret, Cortex Bomb, EMP Grenade

    • Possibly wrong, I’ll have to see in the long run.
      ** - Essentially, for all intents and purposes mutually exclusive.

Now, in my case, my primary class (at least for my first character) is going to be a Medic.

So I can put all the points I want into Universal abilities, leaving 15 (10-5=5; 20-5=15).

Then I put all the points I want into Medic abilities, leaving 10 (9-4=5; 15-5=10).

Then I can put all the points into Soldier abilities, because I might need to rush an objective even though I’m speccing for a dedicated Medic.

So I put all the points I want into Soldier abilities, leaving 6 (10-6=4; 10-4=6).

Now I’ve even got enough to do the same for Operative abilities, and STILL HAVE 2 POINTS LEFT (9-5=4; 6-4=2).

That’s taking every point I want, I can have points in every single class.

(ThePilgrim101) #34

Uh…No.

Check the videos. The abiltiies have a “sell all” button.

It looks a bit like masteries in League of Legends.

EDIT: Q/A Confirmed:

Will there be an option to reset purchase abilities? And if so, how does it work? -Lynn

Yes! At any point, you can sell all of your purchased abilities and completely re-spec your character. This comes at a cost, however, as your character will lose one level (and with that, one ability credit). For example, if you’re level 11 and decide to sell everything, you will be dropped back to level 10 and are then left with 10 credits to buy abilities

(Linsolv) #35

To “Sell All” you DO lose one level. So, if you “Sell all” at level 3, you become level 2. If you “sell all” at level 11 you become level 10, and so on.

(tapout) #36

I think if theres not enough of one class, then the operative wheel will make it an objective to change classess.

(ThePilgrim101) #37

Right, but you’re not forced to grind a billion different characters. You can try everything once with one character. As well, because you’re only loosing one ability credit per level, it’s not as though you have to grind another character all of the way to level 17 again just to try one new combination.

(Nerfed) #38

So, can anyone tell me exactly what the ‘rules’ are on skills? I thought you can only have 3 skills equipped in total, per class (regardless of passive or not).

If that’s the case, just find the 3 most useful skills on each class, and spend 5 points on them, per class (or weigh them out a bit, 6 on one class and 4 on another).

(dajfactor) #39

[QUOTE=Nerfed;294821]So, can anyone tell me exactly what the ‘rules’ are on skills? I thought you can only have 3 skills equipped in total, per class (regardless of passive or not).

If that’s the case, just find the 3 most useful skills on each class, and spend 5 points on them, per class (or weigh them out a bit, 6 on one class and 4 on another).[/QUOTE]

Don’t think that limit applies to passive abilities.