Where do we go from here?


(BomBaKlaK) #21

Number 1 issue is still Maps ! They are absolutely boring, répetitive and Obj design is just not fun at all … especially carrying ones who were suppose to be the most exciting ones. Dôme take the good direction but I don’t know there is still something wrong, I think start the map with a carrying obj is not the best idea.

I dare you ! I double dare you !
[video]https://youtu.be/yvEik9N_xWI[/video]

Ha and yeah this :

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;525478]As far as I see it currently…

NOW

(1) Not enough players to enforce balanced fun games
(2) Frustrating RNG loadout card system
(3) Imbalanced Merc Mechanics (Frag/aura)
(4) Limited Mercs

LATER

(1) Lack of interesting merc meta mechanics (counter/synergy/etc)
(2) Boring OBJ types
(3) Map grinding
(4) Repetitive game play experience[/QUOTE]


(montheponies) #22

Whilst I agree with some of the points - the main ones for me remain maps and objectives - as Bomba says. For me a good map starts with blowing something up as the attacker to gain entry and then steal something and manage to make an escape. Contrast that with running to a choke point and standing still repairing a slow moving vehicle…or grabbing a milk jug and running it ‘to’ something, all the while being unable to shoot.

However that said (for the umpteenth time) there are presently 16 servers varying from 8 to 16 players - so not really convinced that the OP is particularly worrying.

For all it’s faults, I’m still choosing to play this, rather than anything else…


(Szakalot) #23

[QUOTE=montheponies;525550]Whilst I agree with some of the points - the main ones for me remain maps and objectives - as Bomba says. For me a good map starts with blowing something up as the attacker to gain entry and then steal something and manage to make an escape. Contrast that with running to a choke point and standing still repairing a slow moving vehicle…or grabbing a milk jug and running it ‘to’ something, all the while being unable to shoot.

However that said (for the umpteenth time) there are presently 16 servers varying from 8 to 16 players - so not really convinced that the OP is particularly worrying.

For all it’s faults, I’m still choosing to play this, rather than anything else…[/QUOTE]

aye, gunplay and the related teamwork are excellent. I don’t mind a single thing about how guns behave, movement, DPS, or ttk. We just need a better reason as to WHY. Execution could very well be the answer.

Otherwise, if given the opportunity, community made maps will save the day.


(prophett) #24

[QUOTE=Szakalot;525552]
Otherwise, if given the opportunity, community made maps will save the day.[/QUOTE]

This needs to happen. Execution is definitely not the answer :confused:


(BomBaKlaK) #25

Execution mod won’t save anything …


(Hundopercent) #26

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;525473]


Ignore the servers with 1 player in them (them players are bugged and the servers are actually empty.)

This is now the lowest number of players I have seen since the transition over to steam. I am sure it will pick up slightly later on tonight but I bring this up because from experience, once it becomes hard to join a game at any time of the day, the game starts dying super fast as people eventually stop trying.

What happens from here?
Do Splash Damage / Nexon start restricting time we can access the game?
Do they hand out 100,000 more keys?
Do they lower the price of the Merc Stater Pack?
Do they start paying some larger YouTubers to start covering the game?
Do they cross their fingers and hope?

I believe this is a sign of both multiple mistakes and really bad marketing…
(For instance the restricting of Mercs)

People now seeing the game for the first time, as players or as viewers of YouTubers.
Are seeing a VERY generic shooter where you push to a point, plant c4 all the time while fighting with guns and nades. I understand and agree that things will be 100x better once all the Mercs are back in and the addition features (New Maps + Mode this month according to the timeline?). I also believe once people can play a balanced match things will improve. However, I do not believe the people that have come and gone already will be willing to come back any time soon… How many more waves of players are going to come and go to never return?

Well I am worried…
What about you guys?[/QUOTE]

You go to your steam library, right click the game, and click delete local content. The game is unsalvagable because SD refuses to acknowledge the community. Leaving blanket open statements like, “Big patch coming soon.” “We have big ideas coming just wait!” and never following through with either. It’s to keep the relatively small playerbase around on hopes. Hopes they know they will never follow through on as proven over the last several years.


(Nail) #27

You guys are so funny, “The Sofa Kings”


(Neo_TA) #28

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;525473]


Ignore the servers with 1 player in them (them players are bugged and the servers are actually empty.)

This is now the lowest number of players I have seen since the transition over to steam. I am sure it will pick up slightly later on tonight but I bring this up because from experience, once it becomes hard to join a game at any time of the day, the game starts dying super fast as people eventually stop trying.

What happens from here?
Do Splash Damage / Nexon start restricting time we can access the game?
Do they hand out 100,000 more keys?
Do they lower the price of the Merc Stater Pack?
Do they start paying some larger YouTubers to start covering the game?
Do they cross their fingers and hope?

I believe this is a sign of both multiple mistakes and really bad marketing…
(For instance the restricting of Mercs)

People now seeing the game for the first time, as players or as viewers of YouTubers.
Are seeing a VERY generic shooter where you push to a point, plant c4 all the time while fighting with guns and nades. I understand and agree that things will be 100x better once all the Mercs are back in and the addition features (New Maps + Mode this month according to the timeline?). I also believe once people can play a balanced match things will improve. However, I do not believe the people that have come and gone already will be willing to come back any time soon… How many more waves of players are going to come and go to never return?

Well I am worried…
What about you guys?[/QUOTE]

that server list with 1 players isnt a bug well kinda is but there was people in them kept leaving over and over matchmaking isnt 100% still fixed. i can understand why some people are leaving the game being lvl 1 player vs a lvl 10+ player and dont know how to play the game correctly getting owned non stop. there needs to be more under lvl 6 servers also SD needs to drop level of “play with a friend” (lvl7) button after level 6 its insanely hard to level up constant grinding.

also map objectives are fine for me i like going to A to B or C and kill people between them. i can understand people who played the game since alpha are getting bored and want more different objective’s but didnt say SD will be release more gamemodes? CTF, bomb run or one man army?


(Glottis-3D) #29

not to paint everything in dark tones i will say that:

This game has a great community. There are ppl who played previous SD games, but also lots of players who didnt. And community is what drives the game.
CUps, Fansites, Forums, Maps, Mods. I think one of the biggest DB potential hides in its community - SD should use this to greater extent than we currently see.


(prophett) #30

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;525623]not to paint everything in dark tones i will say that:

This game has a great community. There are ppl who played previous SD games, but also lots of players who didnt. And community is what drives the game.
CUps, Fansites, Forums, Maps, Mods. I think one of the biggest DB potential hides in its community - SD should use this to greater extent than we currently see.[/QUOTE]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Glottis-3D again.

I see similar comments from people new to SD games (and agree). Hopefully SD will also unlock the potential of it’s community via Steam workshop! :slight_smile:

Give us map tools and “I’m going to show you something beautiful”.


(rookie1) #31

What’s missing to bring suspense in DB ?
Maps are small and has to be because t’s relative to Max players in game.
What ever is the Map configuration (Stairs,Paths,routes,streets,indoor or outdoors…) if wont bring any suspense
The only thing I see for this game to bring suspense is Interaction with map set up that can change the gameplay situations ( eg Awesome side objectives and an Interaction with Stuff in maps ) If there was Real Brainstorming in this department to bring Cool stuff it would be so much interesting…This would change gameplay from repetitive and Boring to fun .
No Cards, augments or Mercs abilities ,Xp,or skins or weapons can do this


(ToonBE) #32

[QUOTE=rookie1;525892]What’s missing to bring suspense in DB ?
Maps are small and has to be because t’s relative to Max players in game.
What ever is the Map configuration (Stairs,Paths,routes,streets,indoor or outdoors…) if wont bring any suspense
The only thing I see for this game to bring suspense is Interaction with map set up that can change the gameplay situations ( eg Awesome side objectives and an Interaction with Stuff in maps ) If there was Real Brainstorming in this department to bring Cool stuff it would be so much interesting…This would change gameplay from repetitive and Boring to fun .
No Cards, augments or Mercs abilities ,Xp,or skins or weapons can do this[/QUOTE]

This would make DB interesting to watch:

  • SW mode
  • NOT a 1 merc for whole map, but 1 merc attacker, 1 merc defender (you can get new merc at mid-game) very important because attack/defend requires different mercs + the ability for each team to ban 1 merc from the game (can be different one at mid game)
  • FF on
  • Collision on
  • Forced respawn (no space bar to respawn)
  • ALL mercs available
  • Predefined loadout cards that everyone can choose, even if you don’t own them

and ofcourse: better maps with cool side objectives.


(tangoliber) #33

I think Locki should bring back Quake Republic and show Dirty Bomb matches. :slight_smile:

I wonder if they are still broadcasting reruns in Asia? When I used to live in rural China, it was one of the only channels I got. That was 2005 to 2008.


(Fluffy_gIMp) #34

[QUOTE=tangoliber;525930]I think Locki should bring back Quake Republic and show Dirty Bomb matches. :slight_smile:

I wonder if they are still broadcasting reruns in Asia? When I used to live in rural China, it was one of the only channels I got. That was 2005 to 2008.[/QUOTE]

I think they still do!
If only he could still get into the costume! :slight_smile:

Regarding involving the community totally agree (ultimately this is how SD started int he first place)
Let us know what we can do here?
(SDK we do really want to do, it’s just a lot of work to get it finished)


(rookie1) #35

[QUOTE=Fluffy_gIMp;525933]I think they still do!
If only he could still get into the costume! :slight_smile:

Regarding involving the community totally agree (ultimately this is how SD started int he first place)
Let us know what we can do here?
(SDK we do really want to do, it’s just a lot of work to get it finished)[/QUOTE]
If a raw map was made without objectives and you would ask the community to fill the blanks (objectives, side objective ,animations, interaction…,goals,story …) and Try to come up with something Awesome and fun . Would it help?


(onYn) #36

I would like to see SD really rethinking some of there underlying concepts in DB. I feel like a clear distinguished path is going to be needed, and should have been gone years ago.
In my eyes DB is basically a somewhat generally simplified version of previous SD games with some mercs seemingly providing further depth to the game instead. And while I am not saying that DB is exactly the same as ET, ET:QW, etc… it still is very similar. The problem I see now, is that I am quiet sure that most of the people who played DB, had some experience with some of those games and in many cases even liked them. You could say it´s the ideal audience for this kind of a game really. And while I understand that not everyone is going to like it, and the game isn´t exactly what people, who comeback from ET, ET:QW, want to see the ratio of people who keep playing the game is shocking.
So what can be done now, or can´t be done anymore but should have been done at least? Either focus on the strengths of your previous games and amplify them with ADDED features or something completely new that needs to develop it´s own strengths, and find own unique features on top of it. Trying both at the same time while miserably failing to implement new game elements (sorry boys but mercs don´t make up for everything) doesn´t sound like a good idea though…

… but what strengths do we actually miss from them? I´ll give a little example and show how big the impact can be of “potential” strengths being removed. For a tl;dr version, go to the conclusion!

Strafing

Movement

So we could move faster with pressing some buttons. And while you can do the same with holding shift, and maybe some wall jumps, the strafing is an unique experience that I still enjoy when I can do it in some games. Trying to get the right timing between jumps is a little challenge while moving from A to B and the increase of speed you experience is a very nice reward. And since in a close game every second can decide if you win or loose, it is an crucial skill in every players repertoire.

Possible improvements:

  1. A possible change for the better, would be to add a bigger emphasis on the timing. Properly balanced I would imagine 95% of people going with 30% to 90% faster speeds depending on there skill. Everyone should experience it a little while trying it out, baiting them into mastering it, while actually distinguishing good strafing from top strafing on higher levels of play.

  2. Another way would be to add some post processing elements like adjusting the POV, adding some motion blur and adding some nice sounds. Obviously this features should be part of the customization every player can do, and you should be able to turn them off at any time (or maybe not to prevent shooting while strafing??). This would further increase the experience of actually going faster, making the experience even more rewarding - satisfaction without even shooting a single bullet :).

Further game elements influences by strafing

Easier and bigger map design possible

With a “rewarding” movement system that also allows you to go faster you can create maps with potentially more space. This allows a bigger variety in the usage of certain weapons, abilities etc. Something I really do miss in DB… Also it is a form of advanced movement that doesn´t need unique map elements to be executed. You can do it straight away…

Unique fighting styles

With a proper balance of spread (yeah I mean the random one) while strafing you could create a bigger variety of fighting styles. Obviously balance is very crucial in this one, and the person with the clean, more skillful aim shoud win in the end (most of the times). However for people who don´t have great aim, but are excellent in other aspects of the game, could benefit from the trade of being harder to hit and the increased spread, shifting the odds of the fight a little bit more towards luck you have, or not ;). Properly ballanced, it would really allow a player to develop his playstyle towards his strengths what is a great thing to do. With mercs having different move speeds, health and guns a player could further develop his playstyle.

Conclusion

Strafing is ONE of the strengths that SD should have build on. They should have added things on top of it, like a more precise timing needed, proper post processing, “swifty” sounds and proper balance. The benefits for the people who play are pretty obvious and the increased freedom in map development is another major advantage. Simply removing it and trying to replace it with other elements was wrong. The wall jumping and mercs should be merely ADDITIONS and not replacements… And while strafing is only ONE example, there are many different strengths of previous SD games that got ignored or removed and replaced with nothing comparable in functionality or fun. And since they didn´t manage to add anything else that makes the game worth playing for a longer time, DB basically goes where it belongs to. Into the F2P trash bin. Just good that I look into my F2P trash bin from time to time when I am really bored :slight_smile:

cheers,
onYn


(Glottis-3D) #37

[QUOTE=Fluffy_gIMp;525933]I think they still do!
If only he could still get into the costume! :slight_smile:

Regarding involving the community totally agree (ultimately this is how SD started int he first place)
Let us know what we can do here?
(SDK we do really want to do, it’s just a lot of work to get it finished)[/QUOTE]

what rookie1 suggested!
with some additions

  1. a blockout map is built via UDK this can be even 1 object for start

  2. Objectives are boxes with same color.
    “Red box opens Red door, when c4 detonates.”

  3. Trick routes (due to different movement in UDK and DB) are also approximately painted/texted
    “From this box you need a longjump+double walljump and a crouch at the end to get to the balcony”
    or just some hprases like “and easy trick jump there, a very difficult trick combe there”

  4. when this is made. this map without any/little changes goes to blockout server. and is checked for fight-defend action. this does not even have to have real object triggering (though it better be one) - just double fullholds on blockout map.

i may be wrong, but this will prrbbly not take a lot of time from devs

but (here goes the main thought oif this post)

This will make community excited and moving and creating!!
what does community need? to CREATE things in their loved games!