What is the reason behind 8v8?

(ImageOmega) #21

Crazy idea to satisfy both worlds: max team size 8v8 with server slots set to 20 (or whatever) so you can have people waiting as a spectator for a spot to free up on their favorite server. This currently works very well for QuakeLive.

(iwound) #22

From your point of view your absolutely correct and i completely understand. However i am one of those people who like to play on a larger server, with all its chaos, mass killings etc. i don’t take the game all that seriously.

Just because you dont like something should everyone not do it.
if the argument is true that it affects those who want smaller games and that it shouldnt. then it should stay as it is if thats what SD wants.
but my opinion is it will disenchant quite a lot of people from playing this long term.
And “i feel that’s its my duty as an utter bast**d” to speak up for those who would want to play this if more slots were available. i dont want people stopping me in the street and saying " hey you why didnt you speak up in the alpha for more slots".

anyway i wouldn’t worry as i said itll probably stay as it is. it wont stop me from playing as long as there is plenty of people to play with.

(Breo) #23

8 vs 8 is max. for the current state of the game because if you take a look at the debug data do you regulary get fragged by 1 player on a full server?

(acQu) #24

If more slots, then you need bigger maps. As of now you are just spawning, running a few feet, and then you are already at frontline area right in the face of the enemy, thousands of spots to be aware off, locations, windows, corners etc. Even goldrush 64 players does not give you such a clamped, claustrophobic and constantly having to snort-speedcocain-feeling-to-compete as DB 8v8. There is just no space on the maps, so considering that you are more than good with 8v8. If you want more slots, then you need bigger maps.

Also: pro usually for me means serious fragging and no variety. I think DB is really good at that. Maps are perfectly designed and imo it should not go up 5v5. But this simply does not appeal to pub players anymore in my opinion. I can only speak for myself. The constantly pound on class-based teamplay game experience is nothing original anymore either. There are tons of games which adapted this gamestyle without giving you the feeling “this is how it’s meant to be played”.

Well let’s see when the skins come in and game currency comes into play. I would like to have a second look at DB then, when there is other things.

(Dragonji) #25

Just wanted to bump this thread.

I totally agree with all what Ruben0s said (as I’ve got own servers in a few FPS games too).

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33937-Higher-bandwidths-less-max-players-why

This poll generally reflects what community expects. Definitely more than a maximum of 16 slots.

(Anti) #26

Nothing is fixed yet on team size, but right now I think we believe most of the maps are best with teams around 5v5 or 6v6. When you consider player numbers on public servers are always churning you then need to go to 7v7 or 8v8 to ensure there is still an OK game whilst that churn happens.

Conceivably though, for bigger maps, we could run 10v10 or even larger, but I imagine larger would get really bad though.

Ultimately I’m sure admins will be able to tweak this slot limit to some extent.

(iwound) #27

Thats great news Anti. Hopefully admins will be able to turn it up as much as technically possible.
i think pubbers would have had to compromise player limits for sd to make this game similar across pub and comp.
but imo they could still achieve this by having a chain as they have in the past. pub no limits anything goes -> core game -> comp.
then that way everyone is happy and we can all meet in the middle occasionally.
diversity and flexibility are so much more interesting than just 1.
one thing about sd’s games is that they do bring many different gamer types together.

id like to know if team player no-clipping has anything to do with team sizes or map sizes and whether this will change.

(tokamak) #28

I like that. A lot. Stable server populations are essential for such games.

(Whhaayy) #29

i personally think that 8v8 is alreday too much 5v5 would be the best for pub and comp maybe 6v6 on pub but not more

(maxxxxlol) #30

Or you could just let admins have whatever size they want. Just find the size you like and play on that, nobody forces you to play on sizes you don’t.

(Whhaayy) #31

that would be the best way but i dont realy think that this will be possible

(Dragonji) #32

I totally agree on that but I also think there should be a satisfying maximum defined in the engine so there is no possibility to have 64 slots servers in the game where maps were designed to play perfectly in 8v8.

(Whhaayy) #33

i think you cant say that the maps are perfect for 8v8 i personally think they are way to small for that 5v5 maximum and im not the only one but i think thats
differrent from player to player

(nailzor) #34

i think if the game had some very large scale maps that were made for large scale play it would appeal to a certain type of players that like this kind of thing.

im talking 64 slot servers, 32v32 just slug fests - at this point objectives are almost impossible - but there are lots of players that like this (not me - but there are some)

this would not require like 5+ maps to be made for 32-64 players, but just say 2-3? then server admins could choose what maps they want in rotation, the map length and other optional server side configs

(BomBaKlaK) #35

Remenber Wolf:ET in pub 12v12 on goldrush was really fun and still playable ! more in a fun way but still playable.
DB maps are about the same size as the wolf ET maps.
So I really think in pub we can have a 12v12 or a 10v10 but for more we need some larger maps.

(montheponies) #36

The core game should be capable of scaling from the comp 5v5 through to a pubfestastic 32v32 or higher, just dependant upon the server admin to correctly choose maps to suit the target audience.

As much about choice as anything else and again maps shouldn’t dictate to this extent - RTCW had plenty of maps suitable for larger numbers (ironically mostly made by SD), whilst others where suited to small competitive style games. Both lived happily together and meant the playerbase was larger and more diverse than it would otherwise have been. For all the times I played on jolt3, I’d have an equal amount on Pappa’s tram server…

Similar story with game modes, really think you need to have a good few modes that suit different players. Not everyone gets or enjoys obj/sw.

(Dragonji) #37

32v32? As far as I know DB is not going to be a BF copy.

(montheponies) #38

sigh…oh look it has guns it must be cs, bf, cod copy?

Read the explanation - a wide audience is what drives game success and sustainability - no matter that you, or me for that matter, prefer SW 6v6 24/7.

(BTMPL) #39

Dear lord, please dnt make it 32v32. Those maps are to darn small for that.

I get a strange vibe from reading those posts - do not expect PUB games to be played ANYWHERE NEEAR the level a comp match will be played. Remember, the game will be F2P so most of the players will be in there just to shot other people and not care about teamwork / objective.

Having a moderate limit (like 10v10, 12v12) and the ability to limit number of slots by the admins for a given server would be most beneficial IMO.

Also, you have to keep in mind that comp will always need less players than pub does, as comp players tend to be more organised (be it via experience, voicechat, chain of command etc.) and will require less people to complete the objective. That’s why I shudder at the thought of limiting player count in pub to cater to the comp community.

I will once more use the TF2 metaphore (as it’s the game I spend year playing, with fair amount of comp play). You can have servers as big as 16v16, but the most popular comp. setting is 6v6 (2 soldiers, 2 scouts, a demoman and a medic). Also, it took years for the community (not the developer) to come up with that setting so I don’t expect there will be a perfect solution for DB from day one.

(montheponies) #40

I’m not suggesting 32v32 on the current maps…a novel thought - allow for larger maps to be made…Personally as it stands the maps dont support much more than 10v10 even for pub play.

Maps are just assets - RTCW supported everything from 3v3 comp through to 32v32 pubfests, which was one of it’s main strengths - the other being the modding and map making community.