What features make the 5 classes what they are based on how the mercs are classified currently?

[ASTOUNDINGSHELL]

@gg2ez I ment to say that phantom is ment to sneak and assasinate without going Yolo. sur eoyu can coattinaly get that melle kill but most of the time I use the kek-10…i do admit i tend to use my katana a lot…

[Amerika]

[quote=“gg2ez;109383”][quote=“Amerika;109168”]SD has defined the classes. They can change them at will whenever they feel like. Phantom can spot but he has to use voicecoms to communicate it. So he still fits with recon. It also fits in with many other games that classify recon as either a ranged character or the super up close and personal character (BF series for example). You’re simply trying to make Phantom fit into your view of things which is a desire to classify him as Assault.

All that really needs to be done is get overwhelming community support on what changes Phantom needs to be playable at all levels. I honestly don’t care about classifications. I just want him to be fun, require intelligence to play at a high level, not be cheap and be useful to any team. Currently he’s severely lacking usefulness in a proper 5v5 league match setting. SD can make him a part of the “My Little Pony” class and I won’t care. As long as he’s useful and fun.[/quote]

In what way has SD defined classes? The only thing they’ve done to do that is put mercs in those classes. Sure, SD can call Phantom whatever they want - but in practice, a merc that has no other purpose than killing is an Assault. Fire Supports have ammo, Medics have health, Engineers have quick arm/disarm, and the current majority of recon mercs have spotting. Every merc is capable of spotting through voicecomm, doesn’t make them recon.

Don’t get me wrong, I really want Phantom to be more similar to the other recon merc ability-wise, but his current role, as stated by SD themselves, to kill people only, gives him more similarities with Assaults than Recons. The fact that Phantom has to be sneaky about it doesn’t affect anything. If all we need is community support, I can stick to it.

SD can make him a part of the Goof Troop and I wouldn’t care, as long as he evident consistencies with mercs of that group - because I’m unhealthily bureaucratic.[/quote]

He’s defined by them as a recon so he’s recon for now. Now I am spitballing here but I am trying to look at it from their point of view. As Phantom you can sit in stealth and spot people and tell people where they are over voice coms in theory (even if it’s not very good it can’t be denied). Also, as I said previously, recons can fill multiple roles in other games and traditionally recon is either a sniper or up close and personal. Since Phantom can do this as well he fits the bill. This might be SD’s logic. Yes, he’s meant to kill people but that’s what all recons do along with spot people…and as I said, and it’s weak but it does make sense, Phantom can too. You just don’t get the red marker.

I don’t know how him not having on typical recon ability automatically makes him assault when he’s completely missing any form of assault abilities. At least his stealth allows for infiltration and reconnaissance work and fits one of the typical roles of the archetype, even if it’s not that great in it’s current form, in a game as fast paced as DB. So I am confused as to why anybody keeps trying to class him as assault or why anybody really cares too much about classes. I just want him to have utility and not be cheap hence me not caring about his class designation.

Sure, change him to Assault and give him an assault ability. Make him an engineer so he can stealth plant. Whatever it takes to make him useful. But he’s currently defined as recon and as I established in another post there can be sub-classes of a typical archetype which allows for phantom to exist. Personally I’d put him in a different class called Infiltration and then release another merc that can steal the personas of downed enemies (ala Wolf:ET). But that’s only if I was interested in classifying him. What I am interested in is making him useful and trying to define him as Assault for some reason (trying to get him buffed I guess??) is just weird to me.

[signofzeta1]

In order for the mercs to belong to a certain class, the classes must be defined first. Splash Damage doesn’t just randomly make 5 groups of 4, and then define the classes after. They also don’t place a merc into the wrong class that doesn’t fit THEIR class definitions just because. It is pretty much logical to think this way.

Here is the fact of the matter. Splash Damage publicly said that Phantom’s role is to kill people only. They NEVER SAID anything on what an Assault merc or a Recon merc does. The idea that Assault mercs have no abilities other than to kill, and Recon mercs must spot is YOUR idea of class definitions. Not Splash Damage’s.

The way I see it, is that the class definitions are probably broad generalizations just so a certain merc isn’t forced to have a certain ability just to be in that class, and I am pretty sure Splash Damage probably wants an equal distribution among all 5 classes.

You being a Dirty Bomb expert doesn’t mean anything if you weren’t part of the team that made this game.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“Amerika;109444”][quote=“gg2ez;109383”][quote=“Amerika;109168”]SD has defined the classes. They can change them at will whenever they feel like. Phantom can spot but he has to use voicecoms to communicate it. So he still fits with recon. It also fits in with many other games that classify recon as either a ranged character or the super up close and personal character (BF series for example). You’re simply trying to make Phantom fit into your view of things which is a desire to classify him as Assault.

All that really needs to be done is get overwhelming community support on what changes Phantom needs to be playable at all levels. I honestly don’t care about classifications. I just want him to be fun, require intelligence to play at a high level, not be cheap and be useful to any team. Currently he’s severely lacking usefulness in a proper 5v5 league match setting. SD can make him a part of the “My Little Pony” class and I won’t care. As long as he’s useful and fun.[/quote]

In what way has SD defined classes? The only thing they’ve done to do that is put mercs in those classes. Sure, SD can call Phantom whatever they want - but in practice, a merc that has no other purpose than killing is an Assault. Fire Supports have ammo, Medics have health, Engineers have quick arm/disarm, and the current majority of recon mercs have spotting. Every merc is capable of spotting through voicecomm, doesn’t make them recon.

Don’t get me wrong, I really want Phantom to be more similar to the other recon merc ability-wise, but his current role, as stated by SD themselves, to kill people only, gives him more similarities with Assaults than Recons. The fact that Phantom has to be sneaky about it doesn’t affect anything. If all we need is community support, I can stick to it.

SD can make him a part of the Goof Troop and I wouldn’t care, as long as he evident consistencies with mercs of that group - because I’m unhealthily bureaucratic.[/quote]

He’s defined by them as a recon so he’s recon for now. Now I am spitballing here but I am trying to look at it from their point of view. As Phantom you can sit in stealth and spot people and tell people where they are over voice coms in theory (even if it’s not very good it can’t be denied). Also, as I said previously, recons can fill multiple roles in other games and traditionally recon is either a sniper or up close and personal. Since Phantom can do this as well he fits the bill. This might be SD’s logic. Yes, he’s meant to kill people but that’s what all recons do along with spot people…and as I said, and it’s weak but it does make sense, Phantom can too. You just don’t get the red marker.

I don’t know how him not having on typical recon ability automatically makes him assault when he’s completely missing any form of assault abilities. At least his stealth allows for infiltration and reconnaissance work and fits one of the typical roles of the archetype, even if it’s not that great in it’s current form, in a game as fast paced as DB. So I am confused as to why anybody keeps trying to class him as assault or why anybody really cares too much about classes. I just want him to have utility and not be cheap hence me not caring about his class designation.

Sure, change him to Assault and give him an assault ability. Make him an engineer so he can stealth plant. Whatever it takes to make him useful. But he’s currently defined as recon and as I established in another post there can be sub-classes of a typical archetype which allows for phantom to exist. Personally I’d put him in a different class called Infiltration and then release another merc that can steal the personas of downed enemies (ala Wolf:ET). But that’s only if I was interested in classifying him. What I am interested in is making him useful and trying to define him as Assault for some reason (trying to get him buffed I guess??) is just weird to me.[/quote]

[quote=“signofzeta;109445”]In order for the mercs to belong to a certain class, the classes must be defined first. Splash Damage doesn’t just randomly make 5 groups of 4, and then define the classes after. They also don’t place a merc into the wrong class that doesn’t fit THEIR class definitions just because. It is pretty much logical to think this way.

Here is the fact of the matter. Splash Damage publicly said that Phantom’s role is to kill people only. They NEVER SAID anything on what an Assault merc or a Recon merc does. The idea that Assault mercs have no abilities other than to kill, and Recon mercs must spot is YOUR idea of class definitions. Not Splash Damage’s.

The way I see it, is that the class definitions are probably broad generalizations just so a certain merc isn’t forced to have a certain ability just to be in that class, and I am pretty sure Splash Damage probably wants an equal distribution among all 5 classes.

You being a Dirty Bomb expert doesn’t mean anything if you weren’t part of the team that made this game.[/quote]

As I mentioned before: SD’s classifications are correct in the current circumstances simply because they are the developers, but statistically, Phantom is an anomaly. I get the “red marker”, I just don’t think it’s sufficient enough.

Truth be told, if we’re looking at it from an ability-based and statistical point of view, Phantom fits neither into Assault or Recon - which (suggestion) could be solved with officiated sub-classes.

Don’t think I ever called myself a Dirty Bomb expert, I’m just comparing similarities between different points, reviewing and reaffirming the results.

[signofzeta1]

It is fine to think in a ability based statistical point of view, but don’t go complaining to the developers that Phantom should be changed into assault just because their view of how the classes should be defined isn’t the same as yours.

If you weren’t really complaining yourself, there are definitely some “Phantom needs to be changed into assault” complaint threads.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“signofzeta;109488”]It is fine to think in a ability based statistical point of view, but don’t go complaining to the developers that Phantom should be changed into assault just because their view of how the classes should be defined isn’t the same as yours.

If you weren’t really complaining yourself, there are definitely some “Phantom needs to be changed into assault” complaint threads.[/quote]

I wasn’t saying he “needs” to be changed, I’m just comparing the stats and stating the results: his goal is centered along the lines of dealing damage to enemies without another purpose. Statistically correct, officially incorrect - and I like the stats. That’s all.