Warbell Redux - call for suggestions

(Nail) #21

LOL, can’t remember when I’ve ever seen positive or constructive responses on “Whinefire”

(stealth6) #22

I’m not alone, I thought that site was retarded haha :smiley:

(DerSaidin) #23

You can spawn lots of entities with etpro mapscripts.

I’m not sure if you can make a ladder, cause iirc, they’re not entities. You could try spawning a brush with a ladder texture (I’m not sure if that texture is even available, I remember clip and stuff like that was, so I think it would be).

(IndyJones) #24

ladder texture is availabe.

(]UBC[ McNite) #25

Bo, you can try a call for suggestions for a Warbell_TE on crossfire, but don’t be disappointed when I won’t like the suggestions.

When I created Warbell, I was in touch with Der’Saidin from the downunder league who gave a lot of feedback and playtesting, and some other comp gamers. Warbell is designed for SW, but works in campaign too of course. There even was a showmatch between T34 and some other clan, but it was crap since one of the teams didn’t bother to learn the map and set up tactics… you can imagine how it went.

Carnage offered me some help with modelling etc., so we might be able to do the radio-post thing and eventually some other details with an expansion pack, like an additional pk3 containing the models, and a new etpromapscript.
Do mapscripts work in other mods too by now?

@ IndyJones: I saw your map the other day… nice work, I like the graphic detail and atmosphere, and loved the damage by the cables on the roof :wink:

(nUllSkillZ) #26

ET-Pub and No Quarter should be able to run ET-Pro mapscripts.
Not sure about Jaymod.

(kamikazee) #27

[QUOTE=Der’saidin;185084]You can spawn lots of entities with etpro mapscripts.

I’m not sure if you can make a ladder, cause iirc, they’re not entities. You could try spawning a brush with a ladder texture (I’m not sure if that texture is even available, I remember clip and stuff like that was, so I think it would be).[/QUOTE]

AFAIK you have to spawn 2 things: a fakebrush with a special content attribute which makes it possible to clime there, and a flat-polygon model with the ladder texture on it. Oh, and maybe yet another fakebrush behind the ladder texture to actually clip it.

(]UBC[ McNite) #28

Exactly, but there is no model with the ladder texture applied to it in ET afaik… BUT if there was a flat model, you could use a shaderflush on that texture…

(FireFly) #29

Warbell is in my opinion one of the best custom maps ever created for W:ET.

For me the map is perfect as it is right now…

Now ofcourse you could make some minor changes by adding an extra route etc…
But if you’re really want to do some full time mapping just start all over again from scratch and create a brand new map.

I’ve abandoned my QW mapping project and now I’m working on a new W:ET map for the same reason as you. :slight_smile:

(shagileo) #30

oh, well is QW really that bad?

(DerSaidin) #31

I posted some thoughts on comp changes on crossfire. I’m not sure if McNite will be interested in changing the map for competition, iirc talking to Mcnite in the past he was more interested in making a beautiful map (as he did successfully) than making a comp map.

Its been a long time since I’ve played on warbell (or any other map for that matter), but I certainly think warbell has potential as a competition map. As it is right now, I think its as good as some RTCW maps that I’ve played in comp (ice, village, beach). I can think of some suggestions to help bring it into comp:

As someone on crossfire said, sacrifice is a novel objective, but probably not something you’d want in competition. I’d suggest removing the sacrifice and the bell construction. Instead go with a dyno objective, perhaps followed by a doc run to bring docs (or book in this case) out of abbey. Although the spawn locations aren’t particularly good for a doc run, perhaps move allies abbey spawn closer to side gate

I’d also suggest making each stage a little easier to attack. Particularly the abbey gates - perhaps add another dyno gate (wall breach like supply) between the next two towers, near those front stairs.

Finally, there’s a too many rooms in the abbey for 6v6 competition. I’d cut out the basement entirely, remove quite a bit of the roof space, and try to simplify the rooms inside.

I think the first phase is already pretty nice for competition. Perhaps expose the defenders on the battlements a bit more, and perhaps widen some parts of the tunnels/dungeon.

McNite will probably not appreciate my suggesting simplification of the abbey. From a mappers perspective, it is a beautiful building. The detail, atmosphere and architecture are much nicer than anything in any of my maps. However for competition its all about gameplay. The gameplay of this map is more suited to campeign better than stopwatch.

(carnage) #32

[QUOTE=FireFly;185169]Warbell is in my opinion one of the best custom maps ever created for W:ET.

For me the map is perfect as it is right now…

Now ofcourse you could make some minor changes by adding an extra route etc…
But if you’re really want to do some full time mapping just start all over again from scratch and create a brand new map.[/QUOTE]

I agree that warbell is a very good map and playsvery well, making sence considering the amount of work went into playtesting and balancing the map

Perhaps another map in the ‘warbell’ series would be a good idea. differnt map, objectives but same theme and playability as warbell

Im sure there are a lot of occult based ideas still not done and could make some interesting new objectives

(]UBC[ McNite) #33

Again thx for all the nice words.

Firefly: hit me up if you need playtesting and feedback.

Carnage: How about creating some models for the map you d normally do with brushwork, and implement them with a mapscript? A possible list would be:

  • radar antenna for the command post with 2 different blinking colors (red/ blue for axis/ allies)
  • door/ wall/ iron door for closing the roof room at the bell mechanism
  • some boxes to use at the command post, so ppl get easier up the wall to snipe the abbey roofs (its possible to get up there now too though, don’t know whether it gets used a lot, but sniping the abbey roof is an important tactical aspect to keep it clean)
  • a flat model to apply some kind of cloud circle texture which appears after bell has been rung, as a visual hint, a bit similiar to the cloudcircle in that RtCW map with the large tower which has several levels (this might need testing the impact on game performance though)

I think that s it, just spent 20 mins flying around in spec to see whether there s anything else, but that s it.

(-SSF-Sage) #34

Why not, if you want to have all those upgrades, would you not make a new version then. Fix the bugs, add those smaller things and gather a list of some minor upgrades and release a new version. Would be a lot simpler and cleaner.

(carnage) #35

Agreed. Although you could add in some new models via mapsript if you wanted to create a more detailed version then it might be a good idea just to release a new version with other imrovement. Perhaps a critisism of warbell is that visualy the lighting could be improved, it makes very little use of detail lights

imo adding a few new model into the game via mapscript purely for visual reasons probably wont do much good, at this stage in the maps life i doubt that having a radio anten show on the building is going to change anyones opinion of the map

(.Chris.) #36

To be fair, just start a new map if you bored and need something to do.

Warbell had nice original concept, I don’t think there is much you can do to make it better. As carnage said adding few cosmetic things for sake of it wont really add much to the experience. De-cluttering some areas in the abbey may help though for that stage. I not played map in while but do remember there was a few things here and there that got in way, would have to play again to check where though.

Regarding Quake Wars, although not as good as everyone hoped for it’s still fairly good with ET:QW Pro allowing you to change settings and restrict all the silly stuff. Ultimately though the ranked server crap pretty much killed any hope for wide spread custom content use. Slowly more and more are trying out custom content but can be better. I’d still rather make maps in Quake Wars than W:ET though myself, unless powerball made a comeback big time.

(]UBC[ McNite) #37

Carnage is right, for purely visual reasons changes are not needed.

Only if gameplay would be improved its necessary to do something. The ETPro-mapscripts available already deal with the room at the bell-mechanism.

The radio-antennae and the other visual stuff would give slightly more information/ prevent misjudging the situation, but there is definitily no change in gameplay by them.

My original thoughts were about

  1. adding a route from the commandpost through the rocks down to the cliff area at the garden gate, which would ve opened the last 2 stages a little more, and make it less possible for the Axis to get blocked out of the Abbey compound.
  2. opening a route from the gate building over the small river on the side of the command post to make getting out of the gate house easier.

But since both areas weren’t mentioned as bottlenecks or stages with problems, I think everything should stay as it is, no need to fix something taht s broken.

Many thanks for all the feedback and discussions though :slight_smile:

(shagileo) #38

Does this mean you’ll be working on a total new project? :slight_smile:

(]UBC[ McNite) #39

No, I don’t have that much free time at my hands… and since I don’t get paid for it…

(shagileo) #40

How 'bout we pay you respect points?

No, ok, I understand. Well, be sure to drop by when having new plans !