Voting System: The Absence of A Vote Does Not Imply A No.

(Black) #21

Not at all. As much as I sympathize with your cause of giving players a more balanced and fun experience, let us not forget that the developers has already attempted to address the issue of team balance in pub matches, in objective mode, in their two latest patches. Something which has received a heap of flak from the community.
Your suggestion is not pragmatic, it is prone to abuse and unfair.[/quote]

Not “pramatic”? Sir it is very pragmatic and extremely fair. You act like what I’m proposing is trying to force people to vote, which Is the complete opposite. No one wants to threaten or tell their teammates to vote. If you don’t want to vote then you don’t have too. How is this prone t abuse or unfair?

[quote=“DMaster2;92617”][quote=“BlackFro;92605”]There are only three possible reasons why someone wouldn’t vote in dirty bombs currents system.

  1. Didn’t see it.
  2. Don’t care.
  3. Don’t agree.

It can be any one of these three.
If i missed one please post it.
[/quote]
Meh number 2 seem really strange. I mean it may happen but i see it as a rare thing, especially when a shuffle vote is launched. So rare it shouldn’t really matter anyway. Forcing everyone to vote is pointless imho. But they should make the vote more noticeable so we at least reduce of number of people that completly missed the vote.[/quote]

Again forcing people to vote is what we as a community want to get away with.
I do support making the vote more noticeable but counting people who don’t vote as no is not only a broken vote but not fair.

(Vinos) #22

Every vote given should give the player a free equipment case

(DMaster2) #23

[quote=“BlackFro;92891”]Again forcing people to vote is what we as a community want to get away with.
I do support making the vote more noticeable but counting people who don’t vote as no is not only a broken vote but not fair.[/quote]
We? Personally i want things to stay as they are, except for a more noticeable vote notification ingame.
You really think that people that now don’t vote (except those that miss the vote) would vote yes if forced to? Nope, vast majority don’t vote because they want to say no and will probably say no if forced to. It really doesn’t change much.

(Black) #24

[quote=“DMaster2;92911”][quote=“BlackFro;92891”]Again forcing people to vote is what we as a community want to get away with.
I do support making the vote more noticeable but counting people who don’t vote as no is not only a broken vote but not fair.[/quote]
We? Personally i want things to stay as they are, except for a more noticeable vote notification ingame.
You really think that people that now don’t vote (except those that miss the vote) would vote yes if forced to? Nope, vast majority don’t vote because they want to say no and will probably say no if forced to. It really doesn’t change much.[/quote]

It changes alot and I’ll say it for the 3rd time, I don’t want to force people to vote.
I want the vote system to be fair, and not count someone not voting as a no because it’s not true.

(Drcipres) #25

I think you are right even if faraleth dont thinks the same and i understand him, but i think in tf2 it was from the people who voted, and it was fine, cus right now, almost any vote is accepted, even a 5 / 2

(DMaster2) #26

[quote=“BlackFro;92946”]It changes alot and I’ll say it for the 3rd time, I don’t want to force people to vote.
I want the vote system to be fair, and not count someone not voting as a no because it’s not true.[/quote]
If you think it will change something, ok i guess. Imho it won’t change a thing of the current situation and won’t help any vote to go through.

(triteCherry) #27

I stopped voting after realizing that the vote won’t go through anyway due to people not voting.

Funny, isn’t it.

(Daergar) #28

Weird, not voting should never mean voting in the negative. Though it’d sure give the indifferent major political power in the next binary voting process in any country. Amusing logic.

Everyone who doesn’t “get it” when it comes to the voting system being broken, just take a step back and think for a moment, please. The problems and the solutions are all listed in the thread, they’re identified and solved. Not that that ever mattered. :wink:

(Runeforce) #29

Teams are shuffled at the beginning of each match in Objective game mode. I would rather get rid of the option to cast a shuffle vote in that mode, then making it easier to pass.
Bottom line; the voting system on team shuffles works as good as it can, and should not be touched.

The real solution here is community servers.

(Szakalot) #30

@Runeforce
Oh, but we know what is going in people’s heads. 90% of non-voters simply didn’t see the vote. You’d be surprised how clueless people get. Those non-voters always go ‘wtf just happened’ or ‘why did i die’ when they SWITCH TEAMS AFTER A PASSED SHUFFLE VOTE.

Abuse can be addressed by making players unable to vote twice per round/no more than once every X min.

(TheAcidpiss) #31

disregard the non voters, and make the vote UI larger.

To counter such a large display for vote, making a vote such be restricted to every 30 seconds or so! and make it 40 seconds.

Tell me im wrong.

But don’t tell me im wrong about the chickens!!

also, CS has chickens!

Dirty bomb should have DUCKS!!

or better yet! GEESE!

or even better than that FLYING PIGS!!!

(Black) #32

[quote=“Szakalot;93139”]@Runeforce
Oh, but we know what is going in people’s heads. 90% of non-voters simply didn’t see the vote. You’d be surprised how clueless people get. Those non-voters always go ‘wtf just happened’ or ‘why did i die’ when they SWITCH TEAMS AFTER A PASSED SHUFFLE VOTE.

Abuse can be addressed by making players unable to vote twice per round/no more than once every X min.[/quote]

This is a problem that is likely to happen if the vote notification isn’t made more noticeable.
I can see someone missing it and be like why the hell did I just switch teams?

However the voting UI should be changed to the afk UI; a big red rectangle at the top.

(Black) #33

[quote=“DMaster2;92957”][quote=“BlackFro;92946”]It changes alot and I’ll say it for the 3rd time, I don’t want to force people to vote.
I want the vote system to be fair, and not count someone not voting as a no because it’s not true.[/quote]
If you think it will change something, ok i guess. Imho it won’t change a thing of the current situation and won’t help any vote to go through.[/quote]

It will change a lot. More votes will go through regardless if people want to participate or not.

[quote=“Runeforce;93119”]Teams are shuffled at the beginning of each match in Objective game mode. I would rather get rid of the option to cast a shuffle vote in that mode, then making it easier to pass.
Bottom line; the voting system on team shuffles works as good as it can, and should not be touched.

The real solution here is community servers.[/quote]
Team shuffles at the beginning of each match is good however in casuals people will leave and join in. Therefore it’s bound to become unbalanced which is why shuffle is here to stay.

However the voting system just isn’t fair. I don’t want to harass my teammates into voting a team shuffle. I want them to vote on their own accord, and I don’t want the vote outcome to be affected by those who don’t participate.

(Black) #34

Just want to point out that today I was playing a game in one of my teammates were afk.
I voted to kick the person and 3 other people voted yes, and no one voted no and wasn’t kicked.

Are you kidding me right now?

(Grave_Knight) #35

[quote=“stupefyingMob;92525”]Saying this is unfair is like saying Americas voting system is unfair which it’s not.[/quote]A flawed system corrupted by gerrymandering isn’t unfair? Regardless, no vote doesn’t just go to one side or the other, hell even when voting for a proposition if only a minority votes in favorite of it but no one votes against it, it still passes. Your logic is flawed.

(ostmustis) #36

I like it better as it is, an active participation for change otherwise same.
Better to improve the call vote sound and visuals but dont make it some dramatic bs sound that we got for the objectives…

(Black) #37

[quote=“Grave Knight;94200”][quote=“stupefyingMob;92525”]Saying this is unfair is like saying Americas voting system is unfair which it’s not.[/quote]A flawed system corrupted by gerrymandering isn’t unfair? Regardless, no vote doesn’t just go to one side or the other, hell even when voting for a proposition if only a minority votes in favorite of it but no one votes against it, it still passes. Your logic is flawed.
[/quote]

How is that flawed? The majority rules concept is something that is commonly misunderstood and I will repeat it again. Majority rules accounts for the people who VOTED, not who CAN vote.

Right now your telling me if I started a poll or vote on these forums, it will never be valid because 51% of the forums population HAS to vote yes for it to pass.

(HoopleDoople) #38

The problem is NOT how the votes are counted for team shuffles. The problem is that team shuffles are done by player initiated voting. In every game I’ve ever seen such a system present, it is without fail abused. If a team shuffle can pass by a simple majority of voters, it is too easy for unwarranted shuffles to pass due to nonvoters. If a team shuffle requires a majority of the server to pass, it will almost never happen no matter how badly it is needed. After all, a losing team is likely to have AFKs and idiots who won’t vote, while the winning team won’t be keen to give up their easy win.

Really the only cases where player initiated voting is appropriate is for kicking players who are hacking or deliberately being useless. An option to vote to mute toxic players is also well appreciated. AFKs should be primarily dealt with by being swiftly moved to spectate and kicked a short time later. Players bypassing AFK detection are clearly being deliberately useless, and would be dealt with by vote kicking.

In the case of stacked teams, the key is for the game to auto-detect the problem and then initiate an action. For Dirty Bomb, there are three possible ways to detect this: player count per team, experience differential, and kill differential, though the latter isn’t nearly as relevant in the current modes. Should a certain threshold be passed for more than a couple minutes, the game needs to take action. Possible actions include:

  1. End the game immediately as a slaughter-rule victory for the stacked team.

  2. Trigger an automatic team shuffle. Players would be credited as having won or lost based on the original teams (the stacked win and the stomped lose).

  3. Initiate a surrender/shuffle vote that only the losing team can participate in. A simple majority of voters would be required for the vote to pass.

  4. Provide a pity bonus to the losing team, such as extra max health or quicker cooldowns. This bonus could automatically scale up or down as needed to maintain a rough balance. Again, the stacked team would be automatically counted as having won regardless of the outcome.

(IcySkyz) #39

On the note of voting, I wonder how other countries run their elections and how their voting system works.

In Canada, we are having federal elections. Currently the Conservative Party with PM Stephen Harper is in power with the NDP (Party) and Liberal Party trying to kick him off. Lets say (for example) the voting population of Canada is 25 million.

Out of 25 million, only 15 million vote and 10 million didn’t vote.
Voting results:
Liberal: 10 mill
NDP: 4 mill
Conservative: 1 mill

Which makes more sense:
a) Liberals win because they have the most votes out of the total ppl who voted
b) Conservatives win because 1 million voted PLUS 10 million (since 10 million didn’t vote for ANY party so those votes get automatically added to the current government)

These two situations are pretty much a mimicry of what we are discussing.
A is what BlackFro is suggesting while B is what we currently have in-game.

Canada follows the A route.

What I am trying to get at is: voting is so simple and so easy to understand that there simply no excuse not to vote. In-game, you just have to click a button and if you can’t put the “effort” to do that, then you should have no say in decisions made in-game.

(Grave_Knight) #40

[quote=“BlackFro;94273”][quote=“Grave Knight;94200”][quote=“stupefyingMob;92525”]Saying this is unfair is like saying Americas voting system is unfair which it’s not.[/quote]A flawed system corrupted by gerrymandering isn’t unfair? Regardless, no vote doesn’t just go to one side or the other, hell even when voting for a proposition if only a minority votes in favorite of it but no one votes against it, it still passes. Your logic is flawed.
[/quote]

How is that flawed? The majority rules concept is something that is commonly misunderstood and I will repeat it again. Majority rules accounts for the people who VOTED, not who CAN vote.

Right now your telling me if I started a poll or vote on these forums, it will never be valid because 51% of the forums population HAS to vote yes for it to pass.[/quote]

[spoiler]The city of Austin is primarily liberals and democrats but due to gerrymandering it’s run by Republicans. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/TravisCountyDistricts.png
Yeah, it’s a Majority rule alright. It’s just the Majority of that Majority doesn’t actually live in the city.

And then there is Illinois District 4.
http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2013/Congress/CD4.jpg

The best thing about all this is it’s perfectly legal; including the money they receive from political parties (both sides are doing it) to have the district redrawn in such weird shapes. But, you know, it’s not flawed at all.[/spoiler]

Anyways, you’re misunderstanding what I was calling flawed. I was criticizing American voting systems.