Hello and thanks for the opportunity to give feedback like this.
My biggest problem with the map is the spawpoint system, I feel like it needs some sort of dynamic position based spawpoint rather that static objective based one so it rewards adaptability to situations better, it also makes chokepoints more difficult to just clog for defenders on certain mercs since you could enter from other angles.
@spookify said:
@Vilham said:
Hey all!As we stated in the dev video we want to make design changes to Underground and we want your help to do them. The maps are created for your benefit so we think it is fair that we listen to your issues and try and work out together the best way to fix them.
Please let us know what your issues are and why you want them changed. Feel free to drop any ideas on how to solve them.
Things to remember:
- Only post issues and solutions for Underground
- Have open discussions about the issues and solutions
- Feel free to post images and video’s for clarity
Please stay constructive and try not to get too heated. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so be civil and remember “Don’t be a dick”!
I think the biggest question I have is what are you willing to change? Go “big” or go home style? or are you thinking possible a few more routes or paths?
Can re-cap spawns be added and different style objectives be added? What is the possibility of the extent of these possible changes.
Underground is the most tubular map in DB it is also the most lotto IMO. One wrong move and the map could be over.
Be interesting to pick your brain and see what you are thinking for this map and expand upon it
For now I am just interested in hearing peoples idea, however large or small. Obviously not all ideas can or would be implemented. For now we are information gathering to see what issues the community have with underground.
@Vilham said:
@spookify said:
@Vilham said:
Hey all!As we stated in the dev video we want to make design changes to Underground and we want your help to do them. The maps are created for your benefit so we think it is fair that we listen to your issues and try and work out together the best way to fix them.
Please let us know what your issues are and why you want them changed. Feel free to drop any ideas on how to solve them.
Things to remember:
- Only post issues and solutions for Underground
- Have open discussions about the issues and solutions
- Feel free to post images and video’s for clarity
Please stay constructive and try not to get too heated. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so be civil and remember “Don’t be a dick”!
I think the biggest question I have is what are you willing to change? Go “big” or go home style? or are you thinking possible a few more routes or paths?
Can re-cap spawns be added and different style objectives be added? What is the possibility of the extent of these possible changes.
Underground is the most tubular map in DB it is also the most lotto IMO. One wrong move and the map could be over.
Be interesting to pick your brain and see what you are thinking for this map and expand upon it
For now I am just interested in hearing peoples idea, however large or small. Obviously not all ideas can or would be implemented. For now we are information gathering to see what issues the community have with underground.
Quick snatch that escaped dev before shoe locks him back in the dungeon. There many questipns to ask before he dissapears
Some complexity or layers to the maps make them tons of fun. Dome was nice before the most recent update. The first and 3rd objectives are now just awkward, narrow, and boring tbh. Different routes or paths and jumps make the maps fun. Add that layer of unpredictability so people aren’t just spamming the only path with explosives like they do especially on the first obj of Dome now. \
Just my opinion anyways. For Underground, I’d like to see some invisible walls knocked down and the map opened up to be more tailored to DB’s parkour element. The invisible walls and random debris blocking various parts of the new maps and the new Dome really throw off the gameplay.
I think Underground should have more tunnels/routes that allow you to drop around/ behind people in the second objective. The hallway is a constant battlezone, and a team that is well set up on the roof usually controls the defense pretty well…
My only real big complaint with that map is the hitboxes on the secondariy obj explosions, they need to be adjusted.
@Xenithos said:
I think Underground should have more tunnels/routes that allow you to drop around/ behind people in the second objective. The hallway is a constant battlezone, and a team that is well set up on the roof usually controls the defense pretty well…My only real big complaint with that map is the hitboxes on the secondariy obj explosions, they need to be adjusted.
Yooo those secondary objectives on the first obj have killed me from an insane distance. It seems a little inconsistent though lol
It’s like, I’m far enough away, this is fine. BEWM
… Guess not.
Okay, I’m behind cover n-EWM!
… cover doesn’t matter apparently.
I’m on top of the the tube, no way it can hit me up here, I’m not even standing ov…
FOR PETES SAKE. STOP.
Apparently the Steam discussion I originally put this idea in was deleted. I’ve seen other people here cover just about everything I’ve thought of for changes except for one…
An extra objective.
I had more details and better descriptions on Steam, but I’ll just keep this plain and simple and open to further ideas. I would like to see the current intermediate area between OBJ 1 & 2 on Underground be expanded on to include a new OBj that would become the 2nd. The idea is that the CDA had a physical wall/barrier that Jackal needs to deactivate via hacking. There will be a terminal in the middle of the area that must be hacked. Once the terminal has been hacked, the wall will begin to slowly open…giving Defenders time to prep for the final OBJ.
This is just a bare-bones concept for an extra OBJ. the main point is just having a 3rd OBJ.
Oh, something I just thought of…the Defender spawn on the 2nd OBJ right now is a death trap. I’m not sure how it can be fixed, but it needs some work.
@k3endo said:
Sky access everywhere, but keep the roof bar things on the first objective.
You mean the big ones that go all the way across the map? Those are so annoying. It’s not like you are going to stand under one to avoid Kira, but it sure does make aiming and using the laser feel unnatural.
Yes, trying to play Arty or Kira even Skyhammer on Underground is awful. I know you can learn tricks about what little thing you need to aim at to hit stuff, but that’s so dumb. We might as well have to type in a long random number to drop a laser on a hot spot as long as we just have to memorize something.
I wasn’t aware of this thread. Well it’s perfect, a few days ago I suggested a change in another thread.
Right-side balcony (attacker view) is a problem. Perfect aiming snipers there are unbeatable because they get a direct view to the lift’s door. It needs some crates there.
Also, I love Underground (who doesn’t?), I wouldn’t change too much of it. But consider that it’s not unusual to see base raping there, and it’s generally attackers who can’t leave base because there are only 2 escape points, too easily monitored by distant shooters.
But really, I’m surprised to see Underground & Terminal being reworked. Underground, Terminal & (my fav) Bridge are really the best maps. I’m still not convinced by the others.
@Vilham: Usually we fix things when they are broken. But Underground (and Terminal) are good as they are. At best you are just loosing your time and at worst we will dislike the new versions.
@Begin2018 said:
@Vilham: Usually we fix things when they are broken. But Underground (and Terminal) are good as they are. At best you are just loosing your time and at worst we will dislike the new versions.
If map devs are telling us these maps have problems, then we should help them find solutions. There are many problems between these maps that can be addressed, only if we tell them whats a problem and whats a solution.
The problem that happened with Dome was a lack of communication, resulting in changes some people don’t agree with. With their new feedback philosophy hopefully we can increase the quality of these reduxes.
Dome was broken then it was a good thing to modify it. But it isn’t the case for Underground and Terminal.
Anyway, my feedback is : Underground and Terminal are good as they are, don’t change them.
While Castle already need to be fixed : The last objective is mostly impossible to defuse.
This is maybe a minor point, but what the last objective implicates kind of bothers me. Everybody drowns! The attackers are basically send on a suicide mission in Underground. I am fully aware that mercs are shooting each other and blow each other to pieces, but this is all in a more comical, light hearted style. Drowning on the other hand is so gruesome.
It’s kind of like Sub-Zero showing up in Super Smash Brothers and ripping Toads cutsy mushroom head off. Yes, the characters in SSB are violent to each other, but it is a complete different style than MK violence.
@Melinder said:
Proxy picture says it all really.
Are your 698 posts like this one? Then you should learn to shut up, really.
The defenders should have a harder time getting to the side balcony on point A, and there should be fewer sightlines into the attackers spawn.
The Generator Room at point B should be easier for attackers to control as a forward position. Perhaps you could do this by connecting the current hallway to a second one that opens behind the big box in the main lane. That way attackers have a second way to retreat when being overwealmed and more options to access the route.
Also there should be less sightlines from defender spawn on point B to encourage snipers to be more active.
Underground is a fun map to play on but from large amounts of games resulting in wins and losses and seeing some OCB streams with this map there has been a handful problems. Here are the problems from the eyes of me and other people I’ve spoken this to.
Problems:
-The first objective has sight-lines that are useless or a big game changer, an example is the defender’s left side as they can snipe you all the way to the other side of the map where attackers spawn, another example is the roof of the medbay onto the attackers left route or the right route as well making it a match of spawn killing. A useless sight-line is mainly the balcony on the defenders side with the elevator to it.
-The ways to get in as attackers are struggling at times as the only two options at first is the defenders way in and the roof while the others you have to fight for, they make it hard to keep track of the main obj and the way in, the gens feel like something not worth fighting for as much since they are just a simple task or an extremely challenging one.
-The Second main obj has terrible secondary obj, the gas tunnel is a waste of time to come out the same way than a similar route with less time cut out and the gen is so exposed and close to attackers that makes the defenders feel that its not worth taking control of. The doors to defenders spawn feel useless and is focused on more than the main obj making it harder to newer players to keep track of for such a useless thing, a key example is how you are able to wall jump out of it or even go up the pipe or into the ammo room(in other words there is never a closed route).
-The first main obj has a open roof that makes it hard to defend since there is always proxies and random explosives coming down without you noticing it.
Here is a map overview on ideas that can be reworked, https://imgur.com/gallery/76mBJ
Solutions(corresponding to problems):
-Introduce a new route for attackers that goes into the middle and high up to be in par with the roof of the medbay to make a new route to get out of sniping hell and a porch for snipers or other mercs like turtle to take out snipers or spam
-Open up the south door and make the generator be used on the roof to make a vertical door(or a hatch i think its called) and add more to the north generator. Adding to the first problem and solution, have the gen open a door to the balcony on the defenders side(that means taking out the boxes and all that clutter behind the ammo box but move the box to face the wall) and add a mg nest up there so that people can use that spot more than before with attackers on suicide missions to the elevator.
-Rework the secondary obj on the Second main obj, have the ammo room have two going up to meet up together and a 3rd set of stairs to the side heading to the terminal and add two doors, when the generator is fixed the door leading to the terminal is closed but the defender door is open but when its destroyed its the other way around so that it makes it easier for attackers to get on the point instead of just one way in and cut off a route for defenders. For the gas tunnel move the gen closer to the hole into the main room and reroute the tunnel to go further down as a flank to the terminal.
-For this I just explained on the second solution
I thank you for reading the ideas I have for the map and I wish for you to make the best of any decisions to make this map better than before.
I believe the overall map is well designed as is.
