Umpsta Utz Utz

(shagileo) #21

Aight, gonna check that out on my other PC asap. Got 1.4 on it so I can check it out, unless someone else already knows the answer of course :slight_smile:

Thx for the info Sage (as always)

(-SSF-Sage) #22

[QUOTE=shagileo;181743]Aight, gonna check that out on my other PC asap. Got 1.4 on it so I can check it out, unless someone else already knows the answer of course :slight_smile:

Thx for the info Sage (as always)[/QUOTE]

No problem. Oh and you can save the portal file after vis compile with -saveprt (should be default tho). You don’t need to do a vis compile to load the prt file, as it is generated during the bsp.

(shagileo) #23

Ah, so now I finally understand the PRT file (which is default btw)
Good to know. That should help with creating those Hint brushes, right?

Well I surely hope so.

(-SSF-Sage) #24

Well it sure helps to understand portals, but I never used it for vis or hints. I actually have looked with it like less than 10 times, because I know how the hints works. Understanding basic vis or hint brushes after all is very simple, but using them in a real map might not be, because of the complexity that usual map holds. I can draw you some pictures if you still haven’t understood how the vis works.

Ps. evil amount of msgs + upcoming “moonshine”

(shagileo) #25

Well the problem is that I’ve found tons of Hint brushes tutorials over the Internet and on this Forum, but they always deal with ‘S’ - like hallways .

It’s getting a real pain in the butt when you have to Hint an open terrain. It’s as you say:
“but using them in a real map might not be, because of the complexity that usual map holds”

Those pictures would really come in handy, so I gladly accept your offer ! (if you have some spare time of course).

(-SSF-Sage) #26

There’s no use for hints, if there’s not structrurals to use in blocking. Open terrain maps are usually pretty hard. Depending on the situation, you can use mountains (by having structural caulk brushes to block - works worse than could) or buildings to block the vis. The last option, which I never suggest to build on is fog ofc. But again it’s the need of structurals, not hints. It’s hard to speak about every situation in one time. Well I’ll try to provide you with some pics tomorrow evening. Now gtg sleeping (4 am, lil drunk, early wake up… good combination).

(shagileo) #27

Well I don’t want to be a pain in the 4$$ , but I’m still interested in your pics :slight_smile:

(-SSF-Sage) #28

Oh yeah! Sry I forgot. :o I have been busy with school anyway, but I try find some time, probably in thursday latest. Unless I die in another school shooting, I’m afraid of tomorrow. :confused: Gotta love this ‘new’ finland. :rolleyes:

(shagileo) #29

Woah nonono sorry … take your time please !! Don’t let me interrupt your schoolwork .

Hmm, yeah going to school in Finland must be really weird these days. With all that happened there :rolleyes:
Well, I wish you the best of luck and good studying anyways :wink:

(-SSF-Sage) #30

Yep I’m lucky to be still alive. Tho tomorrow is another bad day. Did you know that we have 9 times more victims in school shooting than in USA. Compared to the population. Thx for wishing me luck.

(-SSF-Sage) #31

Okey here’s some quickly made pics in paint. Note, these might not be the best solutions in every situation, and the hints might not be always needed, cos of the automatic portal cuts the compiler makes. Which are based on structural geometry and portals caused by blocksize cmd. These are just to demonstrate how the hint brushes works. Ok let’s start, so black lines are sides of structural brushes and green lines are hint brushes’ sides.

Always when one portal/area can see other, it works vice versa ofc. Portal 1 can see Portal 2-> Portal 2 can see Portal 1. //removed about can’t see// Also remember that the direction you don’t look at can’t be seen (doh).

Always use common/hintskip (which also gets filtered off when you filter hint, unlike the common/skip) on the sides you don’t need. Remember in these pictures (top view ones) the hint brushes are extended from bottom to top. So let’s start with something rly basic.

Area1 and Area 2 can’t see each other. Area 3 (non marked) can see both of the Areas.

Hints and vis works in 3d so don’t forget the Z-axis. Area 1 can or can’t see Area 2 if we don’t extend the hint to the broken line. Depends on the automatic portal cuts the compiler makes. If we extend the hint brush, area 1 and area 2 can’t see each other (if the x and y are ok ofc). //edited

Area 1 can see only Area 2.
Area 2 can see Area 1 and Area 3.
Area 3 can see Area 2 and Area 4.
Area 4 can see only Area 3.

Area 1 and 3 can’t see each other. Area 2 can see Area 1 and 3.

Okey finally something little more realistic.

Area 1 can see only Area 2.
Area 2 can see Areas 1, 3 and 7.
Area 3 can see Areas 2, 4, 5 and 7.
Area 4 can see only Area 3.
Area 5 can see Areas 3 and 6.
Area 6 can only see Area 5.
Area 7 can see Areas 2 and 3.

Here’s a work of an hour. Hope you understand it. I’ll add explanations to last pic soon. Ok here it is. Red lines are the mystical “lines” I was talking about before. I hope this clears it up, if ^^ didn’t do it.

(huPoo) #32

Wow man you really put yourself into this.

(shagileo) #33

He sure did !!

Very clear and basic explanation !

Thanks for that, I do understand a bit more of those nasty Hint brushes. I’ll try them out on my map and see if it works… if not, I just go and spank you (^^ nono, then it’s just me of course).

Thank you very much!

(-SSF-Sage) #34

No problem! Always glad to help. I rly wish that major of mappers that don’t know about vis can learn of this.

(Tyrlop) #35

nice explination. are the hintbrushes something the bsp automaticly generates or you have to put them in manualy?

(shagileo) #36

They are hand crafted nasty buggers.

I don’t have much experience with them (not to say: no exp. at all), that’s why I asked for some advise with good old Sage.

So you have to make them by hand … yes… it freaks you out… I know… shh… it’s alright… I know … :stroggtapir:

(-SSF-Sage) #37

Hint brushes are normal brushes, that you make like normal brushes and you give common/hint to. The faces you don’t need you give common/hintskip. When you have added the hint brushes the bsp meta stage will use the hint brushes to cut the portals into more portals. You can see the portals with the .prt file ^^. After compiling vis the prt file is useless (unless you wanna view the portals ofc).

When you are doing the vis stage, the compiler will count, using the prt file, which portals you can see from which portal. It DOESN’T count like I did with the areas. I did because it gets too complicated to think or tell as portals. I always think about the vis like breaking it into areas ^^. The compiler will split the areas into portals.

(shagileo) #38

So the hintskip can be considered as some kind of Caulk, but then for Hint brushes? And what about the regular common/skip brush?

(man you’re like … the owner of hint brushes… they obey you )

(-SSF-Sage) #39

Yes, hint brushes’ caulk. :smiley: common/skip=common/hintskip. Difference is that hintskip gets filtered of in radiant, when you filter hint, unlike the skip.

(shagileo) #40

Allrighty, I made a list of some helpful links that can help others to understand more about the Hint Brushes. (me… the man who knows all about hint brushes… sigh … anyways, it can be useful :wink:)

Direct download:

Site: