Things I would like to change


(zenstar) #21

[QUOTE=retsy;409993]yes when you get to it, shotgun 2-3 shots to kill and a middle dot would be super helpful.
also yes please remove the slowdown when shot :slight_smile:

a sock full of quarters with the knot in it. now thats a great idea >.<[/QUOTE]

Either the shotgun is more accurate at range but requires more shots to kill, or it’s more deadly and closer ranged.
From my experience it seems to be deadly at close range and useless past that.

I think it’s decent at the moment esp with the delay between shots and long reload time. If it gets tweaked it should only be by a small amount imo.


(Humate) #22

Horse I find those requests really interesting.
A lot of those things you wouldnt expect from someone that dislikes one man wrecking crews.


(dommafia) #23

[QUOTE=lakersforce;410043]This!!!

But not this:

Skilltrees and more character customization then Brink had? Seriously? I say no thank you, leave it out completely!

[/quote]

I agree with lakersforce, not too rpg-ish please :frowning:

And remove the one-pistol-headshot-and-you’re-dead-even-at-full-health mechanic.

Pistols kill in 3 headshots. Do you mean not having any gun one shot killing? Agreed that would get very annoying. A shotgun at ultra close range I’m not sure I would mind being a 1 shot kill.

And yes, I agree on that the shotgun feels overpowered at close range. And it feels useless at medium range.

as it should be? :wink:

[QUOTE=Humate;410088]Horse I find those requests really interesting.
A lot of those things you wouldnt expect from someone that dislikes one man wrecking crews.[/QUOTE]

I couldn’t help but feel the same way as I was reading xD


(murka) #24

[QUOTE=H0RSE;409994]- I would like the game to avoid the “one man wrecking crew” mechanic that many games suffer from, where even if it is a team-based game, it allows for (skilled) players to essentially carry a team, dominate the enemy, and/or win the game.
I would rather the game be designed in a way where this scenario is rare, and players playing as a team is not only encouraged, but perhaps even required in some instances.[/QUOTE]

Well etqw pretty much had a one man wrecking crew type gameplay. Just playing on pubs you could win the game yourself and it felt rewarding. Brink on the other hand was a quick shooting and killing game so being caught off guard meant you were dead. Not ideal for a lone wolf and required teamplay. Sounds nice? The reality is that players come in a huge variance of skill and the game should reward one player for being good. Sure a one-man-carry isn’t very ideal, but somewhere close to it lies the perfect zone. In etqw for example, i had one 12v12 pub game where my team was pounded badly on sewer, but i did manage to do every objective myself. Stuff like hammering the obj, quickly swapping to engi etc. Later i was sneaky and trickplanted and held on my own. My heart was pounding the whole time and i must say it was the best etqw gaming experience i have ever had. Well maybe the dogfighting tourneys beat that.


(H0RSE) #25

[QUOTE=lakersforce;410043]
Skilltrees and more character customization then Brink had? Seriously? I say no thank you, leave it out completely![/QUOTE]
It is very likely that the game will feature some sort of character customization, if it plans on following a F2P business model, since cosmetic items are one of the easiest (and popular) items to charge money for. That being said, if they follow that path, I would like to see it done right.

I also find it odd how you don’t want health regen removed. If I remember correctly, neither W:ET or QW had it, other than as an XP reward. I don’t remember if Medics always had it.

Yes, it does sound nice. I had a lot more fun with Brink than with ETQW - Brink just needed more time in the oven. My rankings would go:

  1. W:ET
  2. Brink
  3. QW

The reality is that players come in a huge variance of skill and the game should reward one player for being good.

There are other ways to “reward” them. A skilled lone wolf, is not necessarily a skilled team player. This is what I would like SD to try and focus on - designing a game that focuses on the teamplay bit, while lessening the likelihood and/or effectiveness of lone wolf players.

Sure a one-man-carry isn’t very ideal, but somewhere close to it lies the perfect zone.

I don’t see how allowing one player to carry a team, or anywhere close it, in a team-based objective game, is anywhere close to the “perfect zone.”

In etqw for example, i had one 12v12 pub game where my team was pounded badly on sewer, but i did manage to do every objective myself. Stuff like hammering the obj, quickly swapping to engi etc. Later i was sneaky and trickplanted and held on my own. My heart was pounding the whole time and i must say it was the best etqw gaming experience i have ever had. Well maybe the dogfighting tourneys beat that.

And this is where I’d like to see if SD can change some mechanics. If one team is, as you said it, “getting pounded badly,” yet one player is not only able to win the match, but do so by completing every objective on his own, then I see something broken with that system. From what I read, the enemy team was clearly winning, thus, your team should have had to work as a team to overcome defeat - but not only did that not happen, it wasn’t even necessary.

Some ideas that could be implemented would be locked classes per match, objectives that require more than one class to complete, or synergy between class skills. If things like this were implemented, the most skilled shooter on the planet could still rack up an ungodly amount of kills, but he could never single-handedly win the game. That being said, if he is racking up those kills, he is either helping by keeping attackers at bay and defending the obj, or clearing a path so his team can complete the obj. In either case, he is still contributing without being a one-man-army. Maybe what I propose could be toggle-able options, so players like yourself won’t need to worry about them, while players like myself will enable them.

I’d like to see DB perhaps stray from the norm, and focus on teamplay in a unique way. Now, I know this would come with its own challenges, perhaps running into the thre problem of making it too team focused even from what I propose, but that’s not to say it can’t be done, and if done, that people wouldn’t play it.


(INF3RN0) #26

I’d appreciate some elaboration here… there’s a certain point where a high skilled player should be able to carry their team if the opposite team is really that bad. I however think that the basic function of the class based objective system is more than enough to counter-act one-sided scenarios. Map design and spawn timers also add to the bias, and from my experiences so far I really think that this has never been a problem. The most recent example was some of our bigger games where Breo and I were averaging half our teams kills and from the score board it might seem like our side was stacked. The opposite team however managed to complete the entire map regardless simply because they had efficient teamwork. There still has to be a point where people can take a loss and use it as inspiration for self improvement rather than wanting to flatten the field.

I don’t think that there’s anything remotely wrong with alternate game modes. TDM is a great way to just practice your aim and test out everything in the game without jumping straight into the fire. That said I’d love more modes. I also was thinking that some unique modes could be developed for an obj game, such as having a semi-mirrored map where both sides have offensive objective chains and attempt to complete them faster than the other. The more game modes the better though, although the standard mode would be viewed as the most complex.


(H0RSE) #27

What I meant by not having the game geared heavily towards comp play, is that I don’t want to see a game “designed for and by” the comp crowd. A game can both be competitive, yet not geared heavily in favor of the competitive community. “Competition” simply implies 2 teams playing against each other - any game can have that. It’s the nuances and tweaks that many of the “hardcore” comp players suggest, that I don’t want to see implemented as a permanent addition to this game.

Throughout all time gaming, I have discovered that the competitve community tend to be a…demanding group of indiviuals when it comes to what they want in their games. The Smash Bros. “Final Destination” vids on youtube pokes fun at this (yes, I know it’s not the same game or genre, but it gets across what I’m trying point out.) I don’t want to see this game turn into a “sink or swim, only big boys can play,” type of game - games like that feel more like a chore than fun. Having options for such gameplay is fine, I just don’t want to see it become an integral part of the game.


(SockDog) #28

The core game needs to focus on being accessible to all while offering some skill paths for those who want to get an edge.

Comp players can often want something that contradicts this yet I do have to say they are an important part of a healthy community and are often treated as an afterthought. Some attention should be paid towards them from the start.

Gamemodes should not focus on similar objective styles. Why would I, want a break from objective, go play objective stopwatch? Modes need to be varied in pace and the level of team interaction to play. Start at DM then fill in the gaps up to Obj mode. :slight_smile:


(INF3RN0) #29

[QUOTE=H0RSE;410146]What I meant by not having the game geared heavily towards comp play, is that I don’t want to see a game “designed for and by” the comp crowd. A game can both be competitive, yet not geared heavily in favor of the competitive community. “Competition” simply implies 2 teams playing against each other - any game can have that. It’s the nuances and tweaks that many of the “hardcore” comp players suggest, that I don’t want to see implemented as a permanent addition to this game.

Throughout all time gaming, I have discovered that the competitve community tend to be a…demanding group of indiviuals when it comes to what they want in their games. The Smash Bros. “Final Destination” vids on youtube pokes fun at this (yes, I know it’s not the same game or genre, but it gets across what I’m trying point out.) I don’t want to see this game turn into a “sink or swim, only big boys can play,” type of game. Having options for such gameplay is fine, I just don’t want to see it become an integral part of the game.[/QUOTE]

Well I for one have been retired from competitive gaming for a while now, and I still find myself demanding the same things from games. I enjoy high learning curves and large separations in skill simply because it promotes an extra layer of motivation to play. I feel like there’s a big misconception regarding the wants of quote ‘comp players’ simply because their level of ability allows them to view a game in a different light. Whether I am sinking or swimming that’s just something I’ll learn to deal with, and I appreciate a game that doesn’t try to make everyone feel like equals because then there’s little reward left in playing.


(H0RSE) #30

And that is why I proposed options for such settings. Where you see “little reward,” others simply see a fun game they enjoy playing. With options, everyone can be happy.

[QUOTE=SockDog;410150]
Gamemodes should not focus on similar objective styles. Why would I, want a break from objective, go play objective stopwatch? Modes need to be varied in pace and the level of team interaction to play. Start at DM then fill in the gaps up to Obj mode. :)[/QUOTE]

The examples in your post are opting to play one game mode, for the same exact gamemode - with a time limit…not exactly 2 separate gamemodes…

A game can offer only objective based gamemodes, yet still offer diversity. A traditional SD style, class-based team objective game, is not the same as capture as hold, which is not the same as CTF, which is not the same as a Base Defense type of game, yet all are objective based.


(INF3RN0) #31

What I think you really want is a match making system where people of similar skill can play together ;o. There’s nothing ‘competitive’ when it comes to playing with people with better all-around abilities. Looking at your list of proposed changes I can guarantee that it will greatly broaden the skill gap.


(H0RSE) #32

No, what I propose is not a matchmaking system - at least not by skill lvl. I am not attempting to group players by skill level, since there are highly skilled players that simply want to play a game, regardless of who they are matched with. I am talking about introducing in-game options/gameplay features, mods, options. etc that can be implemented to change aspects of the game itself, regardless if Nooby McNoobingson or Profoessor Pwnsalot wants to play with them.


(stealth6) #33

I like the idea of a skill system, but I haven’t seen one that actually works. My friend likes to loose 10 matches in a row so he gets put in the lowest rank and then face rolls everybody. It’s not what the system is designed for, but it happens.


(Anti) #34

What I really hope is that we can get the right skill elements into the game, both for individuals and team play, that make for a good game, but at the same time try to communicate and teach those skills to players. I don’t mean teach in terms of “Here is the C4, you plant it by pressing E, it blows things up!” as we often do, but rather educate them on the fundemental mechanics of FPS games such as burst fire, crosshair placement, poisitioning, dancing etc

I think in recent years the communities of the bigger RTS and MOBA games have done this well, making skilled and competitive play more accessible. I’d like to see that reach the FPS community too.


(Humate) #35

Back on topic:

Something I noticed recently is combat can be a bit too pre-fire focused.
For those that dont know what that is, its when you see a player behind a box and theres only 1 way for them to move out of cover. You spam bullets in the area he needs to move out from, shooting at open space until they take the hits and die. The map design, movement system and combat creates a lot of these situations.

The other thing I noticed, if your team has a few too many lemmings [aka players that dont really fight, just objective whore], your team is screwed. They rush, they die, and youre outnumbered, and since the game doesnt currently allow for 1man wrecking crews, theres not much you can do.