Hp and gun efficiency are directly counterable by numbers. If a fragger has more HP and a better gun, bring in 2 people (twice as much HP) and two guns. The engagement itself, insofar the tactics used doesn’t change except its a little harder.
Having nades at your disposal changes the approach you want to take. You can’t hide and regen HP cause you will get naded. You can’t play peek wars cause you will get naded. You have to constantly change your position, and pray that Fragger miscooked his nade. This is a qualitative difference in how fragger is played by/against, as opposed to having just more HP and more DPS gun.
Also not quite sure what is meant. You can easily runaway and keep distance or hide from him if you see him switching to nade. This is not QWTF where you had no nade priming animations and where you could shoot while cooking and throwing nade.
Good player will hide his cooking the nade until the last moment. if you see him switching to a nade you have to make one of two choices:
- rush and try to finish them off before the nade goes off <- only really viable at close range
- run away. Running away because an opponent starts to use an ability demonstrates how uncounterable it is.
Almost sure they did. RTCW 4 sec; ET 5 sec.
alright.
I still don’t think the swapping was a lot longer as you say. Need some input from SD till I believe it.
Also in DB it is quite often lethal if caught face to face while only starting to cook a nade in the open. I die frequently like that if the enemy is a good shot or bears a shotgun at close distance. Lowering HP of Fragger will make it even more lethal/risky.
The nade throwing animation was considerably slower: 7:00
//youtu.be/JaMPBdkPk1w
Looks to be sth like 2 SECONDS after the nade is thrown before your gun is out again.
This coming is unavoidable. Also the spam amount is far from bad. There are games with much higher amount of spam.
Also, the nades were removed from other mercs not due to spam, as stated by SD but to make Fragger’s nade skill more distinct from the other characters. Which is what it actually achieved and this is why he’s called Fragger.
As far as I know nades where removed at the stage of 7(?) mercs? So a very different game, and reasons why they were removed then not necessarily are the same reasons for why they shouldn’t come back.
It is not supposed to be possible if nade is properly primed/cooked, that’s what I am trying to explain for ages already
= uncounterable.
A tactic that when well executed guarantees success is uncounterable, and an anchor for the entire meta.
Nades didn’t make a sound. They made sound afaik only after bouncing off the ground. SD can also add a trail of smoke to the DB nades, why not, though I doubt it will make a dramatic impact on anything.
right, i meant the bouncy sound indeed
And good so! That’s the purpose of a cooked nade! If I am killed by such a nade I don’t whine, I say v56! Nice shot, buddy!
And the point we are arguing here is that imo its not a ‘nice shot’ Killing people with cooked nades is so damn easy, I laugh inside at what the enemy tries to do (run away - wont work ; dodge - wont work ; charge - rarely might work)
Not true. Can’t cheat physics - if it travels faster, then a shortest cooking time mismatch will lead to grenade travelling much larger distance past the target or short of target, which actually makes precise nading harder in DB.
Come on, really? that only applies to nades that you intend to blow up mid-air, say throwing them from underground 1st obj to try to blow up people on the roof (or like in the video I linked a post ago)
Otherwise the faster the projectile the easier it is to use. You don’t have to lead your target, you don’t have to adjust your cooking based on distance (in 90% cases 3seconds cook is all it takes)
But I don’t have anything against slowing DB nades a notch, as well as changing the arch. But nerfing the cooking mechanics, nade damage and AOE anymore (it was already nerfed several times before you returned to DB btw) will just destroy the purpose of both nades and Fragger. Denied!
NICE, I’m only for slowing down the nades, so that they can be dodged/are harder throw. Thats the only nerf I want actually. Wouldn’t mind a bigger arch as well, raises the skill ceiling while allowing for trickier nades as well.
They will still be undodgeable when peeking in close quarters, just like in ET. But having to come up this close opens up the fragger to counters (charge to kill them before cooking is complete). If you can sometimes dodge a nade thrown from mid-long range, well thats all I’m asking for.
uhh yes? I used nades in ET almost in any situation with equal success too. It’s a matter of who throws 
Trying to kill people with nades at mid-distance in open areas was doomed to fail. In DB using nades in open areas is the best way to use them, as people can’t escape your LoS
In ET it was also like that. And in ETQW. And in RTCW. And in most games with nades. So nothing new. If running around corner in DB into the open you see a turret shooting at you, how do you counter that? You run back around corner! If you run out of the doorframe and step onto a mine, how do you counter it? You don’t. You die. If you run towards objective and a sniper shoots you in the head, how do you counter it? You don’t. It’s a lethal weapon. You just respawn and try to be smarter next time.