Stopwatch solution: Last Stand

(montheponies) #41

you mentioned antiquated. you also mentioned “Honestly my core concern is not gameplay but watchabiltiy”. If the game isn’t fun to play who the hell is going to be around to watch it? I watch CoH and CoH2 - not because it’s on a par with football but because i appreciate the nuances of the game and like to see them applied in real time by players better than myself.

Bottom line is SW (and to a certain extent spawn waves) is not suited to long linear serially objective maps - which has been the stock in trade of SD since they created Tram for RTCW. In fact the only map that I can think of in W:ET that was any use for SW was Radar.

You seem to be viewing the problem from the wrong side of the telescope - the game mode doesnt suit the maps and is further being hampered by the current spawnwave implementation. So, change the game mode or the maps.

(tokamak) #42

You’re right in that stopwatch limits SD from doing what they’re good at. Which is objective games set in highly modular maps that can be played out in many different ways depending on creative tactics.

Stopwatch doesn’t favour that. It makes the set times too diverse to be meaningful. Stopwatch instead favours streamlined corridor-like maps that reward efficient fast paced combat. That’s not bad in and of itself, CS:GO and the original Wolfenstein are great for that. Its just not what SD built their legacy on and right now they’re mutilating it by trying to conform to this mode.

So I think you’re the one who has it backwards. Stopwatch games shouldn’t be the greatest value in this game. I grant you that it’s the only way to play competitively but if the opportunity arises to bend the game mode to something that fits the style of ET maps better then I say we should take it.

And this is but one of the solutions. There may be other ways to stop this setting from being so rigid. We just haven’t found any. If we do then they bear equal consideration.

I’m not saying one favours the other. I’m saying that watcheability is currently a problem while gameplay is not. These are not mutually exclusive. I think that a last stand option is both superior in gameplay as it is in watcheability. But even in the case that we have two equal options gameplay wise then I still believe it’s natural to go with the more entertaining one for the audience.

Bottom line is SW (and to a certain extent spawn waves) is not suited to long linear serially objective maps

That’s exactly my concern. Right now we’re seeing SD leaning towards short maps that unfold gradually. I assume that is to cater to SW hard-timer. It’s limiting the way SD goes around making maps from the very outset. I see that as a serious threat to further map development.

A soft limit gives much more freedom. That’s because a double full hold isn’t on the table any more. Completion lengths can be more varied because of the removal of that hard limit in favour of a soft one.

(montheponies) #43

Tokamak the quotes I referred to where from pixeltwitch but fair play … Anyway there is as always a simple solution. Provide each game mode with its own maps, designed to suit.

Objective - long multistage relatively large maps that could even be cobbled together into say a campaign…
Execution - team wipeout, no objectives so relatively small maps.
Stopwatch - single or dual objectives based maps that suit 10 - 15min length.

Problem solved.

Bear in mind I enjoyed and spent more time playing Tram on Pappas server than I ever did in clan matches. Both were enjoyable for different reasons and to suit my mood. For DB to be a success I don’t think it should be confined to one mode or the other. I also think the last thing you want to do is bastardise a mode to suit the current maps.

(Kendle) #44

^ what he said.

The thing is SD have set out their stall, they’ve built this game to be played 5-v-5 in SW mode, primarily, with match-making on top to make it all work in a more organised way. However the maps are not designed for the primary game mode they’ve stated they’re building the game for.

If they were making an Objective based game, to played in an ET style campaign mode, fine, the maps may or may not work (at the moment I’m seeing lots of games getting stuck at the first objective, so even that isn’t working). But to address SW I honestly feel you need SW maps, not Obj maps with a clunky after-thought bolted on to make them supposedly SW friendly.

I honestly think SD should do exactly what montheponies mentioned above and which I’ve advocated before, consider SW and Obj as 2 separate and distinct game modes and produce separate maps for each.

(tokamak) #45

Well I’m glad that we at least can agree on that. Stopwatch mode is ideal for competition provided the maps have a regular pace, like some of the Wolfenstein maps.