Should Guardian be allowed to match up with Javelin's Release on Season IV

(ThePigVomit) #21

In b4 guardian changes block Kira lazor

(GatoCommodore) #22

@ThePigVomit said:
In b4 guardian changes block Kira lazor

oh heelll no

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #23

@GatoCommodore said:

@ThePigVomit said:
In b4 guardian changes block Kira lazor

oh heelll no

I wouldn’t worry too much about that happening since its design requires a projectile to nullify (e.g. the explosives from airstrikes and arty strikes, grenades, etc.). So unless they plan to fundamentally change her role that change will never come to pass; assuming they have any common sense to speak of.

(woodchip) #24

@Cordyceps said:
It’s pretty incredible how long some mercs have to be worked on before being allowed into competitive. I understand with Javelin there’s a lot of controversy on whether or not she’s overpowered, but I’d say that Guardian’s in a really good spot right now in terms of balance, and should be let in at the same time as Javelin.

Guardian is just incredibly poorly designed, so that she will either be very weak or a balance problem. Her design is more intrinsically dangerous to balance than even Javelin’s, so they need to be very careful with her tuning or just redo her.

She Naturally has the potential to:

  1. Make EV attack unstoppable.
  2. Make Firesupports Obsolete in non-EV situations
  3. Make certain defense points unbreakable with stacking. Which you can do easily because 2 means you don’t give much combat power up by stacking her, if any at all.
(GatoCommodore) #25

@woodchip said:

@Cordyceps said:
It’s pretty incredible how long some mercs have to be worked on before being allowed into competitive. I understand with Javelin there’s a lot of controversy on whether or not she’s overpowered, but I’d say that Guardian’s in a really good spot right now in terms of balance, and should be let in at the same time as Javelin.

Guardian is just incredibly poorly designed, so that she will either be very weak or a balance problem. Her design is more intrinsically dangerous to balance than even Javelin’s, so they need to be very careful with her tuning or just redo her.

She Naturally has the potential to:

  1. Make EV attack unstoppable.
  2. Make Firesupports Obsolete in non-EV situations
  3. Make certain defense points unbreakable with stacking. Which you can do easily because 2 means you don’t give much combat power up by stacking her, if any at all.

what’s her Drone HP?
if it were small enough, snipers or even people with burst rifles can take it out before they throw air strikes. Its also needs to be remembered that if she drops the drone in front of the EV while the ev is still moving, it will get crushed by the ev.

What you could do is put it on the side of the EV so it wont get sniped.

What is supposed to happen, if you drop air strike on the other side of the EV it shouldnt get denied because her drone line of sight is limited due to EV

What is happening right now its still deny the air strike even when the drone LoS is covered by the ev.

(woodchip) #26

@GatoCommodore

Yeah I mean you can tune the numbers of all her stuff so that they are still useful but safe for balance. Point is that you have to get something like the Drone HP / Radius / CD very precisely right in order to have it feel good without being too strong.

Both her Drone and her general concept of very strong combat medic balanced by not healing leave very little room for error.

Whereas something like Aura station or Bushwhack turret can be significantly OP or UP without really breaking the game or the characters that used them, as happened in the past.

(GatoCommodore) #27

@woodchip said:
@GatoCommodore

Yeah I mean you can tune the numbers of all her stuff so that they are still useful but safe for balance. Point is that you have to get something like the Drone HP / Radius / CD very precisely right in order to have it feel good without being too strong.

Both her Drone and her general concept of very strong combat medic balanced by not healing leave very little room for error.

Whereas something like Aura station or Bushwhack turret can be significantly OP or UP without really breaking the game or the characters that used them, as happened in the past.

if SD can fix that i just mentioned, i would consider it balanced.

(woodchip) #28

Unfortunately it’s harder than that.

Say you do “drone has 10 HP”. Then you’ve got something that totally depends on hiding behind sightlines to do anything, which it largely already does. But there are still so many areas out of sightline in DB that it can still cause a big issue on many maps.

So for example, a Guardian 5 stack defending Chapel last point with 10 HP drones could still be pretty obnoxious and hard to break. Meanwhile a 10 HP drone would feel super bad to use in other contexts because it would 8/10 times die instantly and only be useful on certain points.

The drone is a mechanic that scales so hard with stacking and specific maps that it is inherently harder to balance. Just like Aura station is harder to balance than Bushgun, but to a greater degree.