Your point being? Sure seems to me your asking for a game based purely off the things that make just you feel good and not what makes a game good or what makes sense in a game. You don’t have a point other than saying things are “simple” just because you say they are and when they obviously are not you use the infamous wolfnem “my opinion” to play off the fact that you don’t even know what your talking about. So why do I adamantly argue with someone who obviously has little logic, achievement, experience, or demand for challenge as a gamer? Just because someone must have taken something someone like you said when taking a nose dive in the development of Brink, and if this forum is really a large source of influence I would rather not have another slip up in the future over someone’s stupid close-minded opinions/ideas.
SD, take note from DICE fans
CTF is a “simpleton game” ???
you’ve obviously never played it correctly, or at all.
done right, it’s an extreme form of team work, runners and backup defenders make it work
DM and TDM are simpleton games alright, that’s why they’re so popular with the “fun game” folks in CoD and CS
[QUOTE=ArchdemonXIII;384233]Saying UT doesn’t really have team-based play is kind of baseless.[/QUOTE]Well, it’s not baseless if the claimants have never experienced teamplay when they played that game and series. They just haven’t played in the right scenarios to experience it.
[QUOTE=tokamak;383134]Well I certainly wouldn’t pay for it.[/QUOTE]You said you don’t pay for singleplayer, iirc, so that shouldn’t be relevant. CoD is a huge multiplayer series and you are spending your time on its sp. I don’t care if multiplayer focused games don’t have singleplayer, nor sp w/o mp, but there is an audience there to target.
[QUOTE=BioSnark;384275]Well, it’s not baseless if the claimants have never experienced teamplay when they played that game and series. They just haven’t played in the right scenarios to experience it.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I was just trying to make my point without being antagonistic, as I think INF3RN0 has that covered quite thoroughly.
[QUOTE=Nail;384266]CTF is a “simpleton game” ???
you’ve obviously never played it correctly, or at all.
done right, it’s an extreme form of team work, runners and backup defenders make it work
DM and TDM are simpleton games alright, that’s why they’re so popular with the “fun game” folks in CoD and CS[/QUOTE]
completely agree with this.
You can make any team-based game as complex as you like. But some games facilitate teamwork better and require it at a lower level of play. One way to facilitate teamwork is to limit the chaotic nature of the game and to make it more controllable. Splash Damage does this with the team respawns. In comparison, Killzone 2 has much of the same class structure but because people respawn 8 seconds after their death, and in the middle of action, thanks to deployable spawn points, it is harder to coordinate with your teammates. Instead, its just about having the right class composition and letting everyone play their role to the best of their ability, rather than communicating which angles to take and coordinate timed offenses.
Natural Selection 2, Nuclear Dawn, Brink, and CS are probably the 4 best fps for teamwork that I have played. NS2 and ND because of the required communication between the commanders and the grunts. Brink and CS because of the way you respawn with your team.
As for CTF, it sort of depends on the game. Some games are too chaotic to coordinate beyond determining positions like offense, midfield and defense. There is plenty of room for coordination in Tribes Ascend though, which I am currently playing. I guess its because of the large maps and large flanking routes to the flag, that you have plenty of time to plan a flyby with your team, and you need assistance from the Juggernauts to constantly mortar their base and clear out defense.
I haven’t played any of the games you guys have been name-dropping here, but I will note that, in general, I would imagine that the hardest part of making an online FPS is finding a balance between enough difficulty,nuance, and depth to keep hardcore players entertained for extended periods of time, but not so much that the learning curve turns off new players and casual gamers, or alienating too much of the potential player base. Devs with a deep understanding of how to achieve this will make something that’s easy to learn, difficult to master, giving it both mass appeal and longevity of replay. It’s something I really admire in gaming developers when they can pull it off.
Forgive me if I’m being overly nostalgic, but the game that leaps to mind for me when thinking about these aspects of play is the original 007 for N64. Obviously, multiplayer shooters have come a long way since then, but I feel like Goldeneye set the standard in this area, and I’m sure even now devs look back on it admirably when trying to capture that special level of playability vs. complexity that makes a shooter truly great.
Sorry, I’m a bit bored and just riffing.
[QUOTE=Nail;384266]CTF is a “simpleton game” ???
you’ve obviously never played it correctly, or at all.
done right, it’s an extreme form of team work, runners and backup defenders make it work
[/QUOTE]
Where ‘done right’ is key. Without highly skilled players with superb communications and strategy, IE like on an ordinary pub game, it becomes a highly random match, very rock-paper-scissors like because the assignment of offence and defence is completely arbitrary.
Putting one team on offence and one on defence removes this fickle metagame without detracting from the tactical value of the integral gameplay.
I’d say they are. A group of clueless people fighting over the same point is going to look way better than a group of clueless people fighting over two different points.
How does that make sense? CTF and ET obj mode are fairly similar in the pub format, though I might say higher level play really brings out the best in both. In CTF both sides are fighting to complete an objective and defend an objective. In ET obj mode one team is defending and the other is attacking, but there are things like the forward spawn and mini-objectives that perpetuate the same multi-tasking. In a pub though, it’s rare to get consistent teamwork from a group of people who aren’t necessarily willing or able. At least in CTF games the requirement for classes don’t obstruct the actual objective, and while classes might be intended to promote more complex team play it’s not always the case. CTF does have the core team play element there, just as much as ET, but it’s in the players hands to use it properly. Don’t think you can argue one is better than the other, just say you like it more and don’t try to reason with it.
Oh. And I thought it detracts exactly half of it from each side.
Good reason to remove forwards in Brink I guess… Refinery interior is the best part of the Africa Campaign imo. And by Campaign I mean pub, ofc.