Redeye shyed away from, let's fix it

[Tanker_Ray]

[quote=“Faraleth;83647”]@“Mr.Dubstab” WHO DARES TO SUMMON MEEEEEEE?

In all seriousness though - The problem with Red-Eye is that he is simply out-weighed by Vassili for the less skilled players, especially in pubs. Vassili’s sniper rifles are considerd “superior” by a lot of new/average players simply because they do WAY more damage per shot, not to mention Vassili has something Red-Eye does not: decent close-range fire-power.

The best thing Red-Eye has for close range combat is his melee weapon, but his slow speed often means those who trump him in close range weaponry (such as Proxy, Aura or Fletcher, etc) will often kill him before he can get a second swing at them, or even catch them up to land one in the first place. All his secondaries are objectively worse than Vassili’s.

One might argue his smoke grenade and IR vision add a lot of “power” to him though, which he is missing else-where, and you wouldn’t be wrong, the only problem is his extra “power” through his abilities have quite a high skill ceiling (heck, I can’t master Red-Eye to save my life… I’m terrible XD ), while a merc such as Vassili have much more in the way of raw damage and fire-power, and as we normally see, to those who don’t understand “potential power” (potential power is basically power or advantages that are statistics outside of raw damage), will often see the “actual power” (damage) as the more viable option - which is why a lot of the time, Vassili will trump Red-Eye for pub matches.

His smoke grenade on a 30 second cooldown is fine to me, honesty. It’s a very unique and quite powerful asset, especially when combined with his IR eye-patch. Honestly, I think Red-Eye has a very similar problem to all other recon class mercs, it’s that in pub matches they simply don’t belong, because at their core they are designed to be scouters/spotter classes that work well with a TEAM, something that doesn’t really happen very often in pubs.

Red-Eye’s smoke is very powerful when a team works together to obtain some strategical positioning, and his spotter ability can mark the entire enemy team if they come into his vision, giving his team a HUGE advantage - but again, this requires team-work.

I’m not going to disagree, I feel Red-Eye could use a little bit of love, especially when it comes to the Grandeur rifle. However like all recon mercs, I think he will ALWAYS be a sub-par choice in pubs, that seems to just be the problem with the class design as a whole, and the nature of pub matches. :c [/quote]

I am actually quite sure about what problem he has.

Smoke and IR helps his free-dealing situation, right, but besides the PDP-70 (based on real sniper rifle MSG-90),

his own gun (based on Garand M1) sucks too much.

It does have massive 40 damage, but it’s without scope, got nerfed (15 -> 12) mag,

nerfed RoF, and increased recoil…

Also, he isn’t fast enough to saw off enemies with his kukri, so melee weapon is quite useless so far…

In conclusion, besides the PDP-70 semi-auto sniper loadout (this is actually better than Vassili using PDP), his Garand cards are under powered because of his own gun.

Dreiss AR (Based on real gun G3A3) card just makes him as arty hiding in smoke.

I might have to suggest you to buff his gun’s recoil or the mag size. (I could actually feel that I was always out of ammo…) But, not as much as Closed-Beta version.

[VincentRJaeger]

[spoiler][quote=“Faraleth;83647”]@“Mr.Dubstab” WHO DARES TO SUMMON MEEEEEEE?

In all seriousness though - The problem with Red-Eye is that he is simply out-weighed by Vassili for the less skilled players, especially in pubs. Vassili’s sniper rifles are considerd “superior” by a lot of new/average players simply because they do WAY more damage per shot, not to mention Vassili has something Red-Eye does not: decent close-range fire-power.

The best thing Red-Eye has for close range combat is his melee weapon, but his slow speed often means those who trump him in close range weaponry (such as Proxy, Aura or Fletcher, etc) will often kill him before he can get a second swing at them, or even catch them up to land one in the first place. All his secondaries are objectively worse than Vassili’s.

One might argue his smoke grenade and IR vision add a lot of “power” to him though, which he is missing else-where, and you wouldn’t be wrong, the only problem is his extra “power” through his abilities have quite a high skill ceiling (heck, I can’t master Red-Eye to save my life… I’m terrible XD ), while a merc such as Vassili have much more in the way of raw damage and fire-power, and as we normally see, to those who don’t understand “potential power” (potential power is basically power or advantages that are statistics outside of raw damage), will often see the “actual power” (damage) as the more viable option - which is why a lot of the time, Vassili will trump Red-Eye for pub matches.

His smoke grenade on a 30 second cooldown is fine to me, honesty. It’s a very unique and quite powerful asset, especially when combined with his IR eye-patch. Honestly, I think Red-Eye has a very similar problem to all other recon class mercs, it’s that in pub matches they simply don’t belong, because at their core they are designed to be scouters/spotter classes that work well with a TEAM, something that doesn’t really happen very often in pubs.

Red-Eye’s smoke is very powerful when a team works together to obtain some strategical positioning, and his spotter ability can mark the entire enemy team if they come into his vision, giving his team a HUGE advantage - but again, this requires team-work.

I’m not going to disagree, I feel Red-Eye could use a little bit of love, especially when it comes to the Grandeur rifle. However like all recon mercs, I think he will ALWAYS be a sub-par choice in pubs, that seems to just be the problem with the class design as a whole, and the nature of pub matches. :c [/quote]
[/spoiler]

I play a lot as Vassili and Red-Eye and as said before, they are a double-edged sword. Either they contribute a lot or are detrimental to the team, but this is how it should be if you ask me. They’re kind of like the Wild Card of a deck; either it’s a gamble that pays off or not.
Red-Eye in particular is very teamwork-oriented and that I believe is what makes him so rarely picked in a pub game. Not everyone hops in to get perfect coordination and when you pick a merc that requires it - if not even demands it - it’s going to be tough. Vassili is easier on that aspect because generally speaking, a badly-placed HBS is not as fatal as a badly-placed smoke. It simply doesn’t point out enemies, while a smoke can blind your team and give them away to the enemy.

Personally, I feel that the best you can do with the smoke in pubs is to use it as a diversion in pubplays; because people see the smoke they expect a Red-Eye nearby so they avoid it (unless it’s a class that can dissipate the smoke.) - This is how I play him in pubs currently, I use the smoke as a lockdown and then stick with the team over at another position. So far it has worked well enough.
However, I would really -not- want to have a secondary smoke added to him. If one badly-placed smoke is fatal to the team, imagine two of them. If anything, it’s his weapons that need a bit more of love. Red-Eye as a concept is a very good merc, but his Grandeur is in that strange spot between a sniper and a combat rifle, and if a weapon is neither dis-or-dat, it’s not good at all. Coupled with the strange ironsight, Red-Eye’s never going to achieve the potential power that he could have. That’s why I stick with the Dreiss more at the moment because it’s annoyingly more capable than the Grandeur, mainly because it has a defined spot in the weaponlist.

'sum of my thoughts atleast.

[Dawnlazy]

What if instead of useless perks he had actually good ones like +20% IR duration, 15% wider smoke etc? Also the Grandeur could be less clunky, especially through iron sights. And the Dreiss could be un-nerfed.

[VincentRJaeger]

What if instead of useless perks he had actually good ones like +20% IR duration, 15% wider smoke etc? Also the Grandeur could be less clunky, especially through iron sights. And the Dreiss could be un-nerfed.

That would also be appreciated; some more decent perks.

[Canucck]

IT’s true. he’s a high skill merc. But how are mercs supposed to be balanced, when high skill and high reward don’t go along? I mean, if he would be tough to use but kick ass in the hands of a good player, then I’d be fine. But give a Nader, Rhino or Fragger to a good player and they’ll do better than with Redeye and with half the effort.

[left]Being able to hipfire 1shot 3 classes and 2shot all the others except rhino, at any range, seems like a pretty high reward given the RoF. The accuracy is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, even while strafing your first shot will be pinpoint accurate at long range, hipfiring. Then it’s about 0.7s before you can make another perfectly accurate shot at long range hipfiring again. At close range you can pretty much use the grandeur as a high RoF shotgun.

People are just playing grandeur with too high sensitivity. You need to be at 8"/360 at least, if not 12+ to use it properly.

Imo the grandeur (with good ability use) is better in more situations than any other gun, but nearly every other gun can be better in specific situations/roles.[/left]

[Szakalot]

[quote=“Lumi;83496”]IT’s true. he’s a high skill merc. But how are mercs supposed to be balanced, when high skill and high reward don’t go along? I mean, if he would be tough to use but kick ass in the hands of a good player, then I’d be fine. But give a Nader, Rhino or Fragger to a good player and they’ll do better than with Redeye and with half the effort.

[left]Being able to hipfire 1shot 3 classes and 2shot all the others except rhino, at any range, seems like a pretty high reward given the RoF. The accuracy is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, even while strafing your first shot will be pinpoint accurate at long range, hipfiring. Then it’s about 0.7s before you can make another perfectly accurate shot at long range hipfiring again. At close range you can pretty much use the grandeur as a high RoF shotgun.

People are just playing grandeur with too high sensitivity. You need to be at 8"/360 at least, if not 12+ to use it properly.

Imo the grandeur (with good ability use) is better in more situations than any other gun, but nearly every other gun can be better in specific situations/roles.[/left]

[/quote]

it can be good if your aim is right, but at that point all the auto smgs and rifles are simply better.

Just because a gun can be salvaged by high skill doesn’t mean its good. Grandeur has its moments when peaking, but is just overall not viable in comp, compared to whats out there.

And the ironsights feel really awkward to use.

[Canucck]

Ironsighting is awkward with every weapon in the game imo, the penalties just never seem worth it when the accuracy of almost all guns is already so good, and movement so important.

I don’t expect to ever use sights on the grandeur unless they make the bloom reset non-existent, which would be broken.

[Lumi]

Agreed, on all smg’s even you get worse spread while ironsighting then if not (at least when standing still). So what’s the point except for a slight zoom?

[extraordinaryEmperor]

Several reason why I don’t blame redeye and why he’s actually kind of easy to counter.

1. There is no disadvantage to walking through smoke, in fact, it’s to your advantage. I’m not sure how this looks from someone outside, but when you stand inside smoke, you can quite easily see the silhouette of people outside the smoke. If they wanted the smoke to be better they should make it like CS:GO so it completely blinds you even as you go through it.

2. The eye does not reflect the smoke’s duration. If you’re using smoke, you’re probably using the eye. The duration of the smoke is 15s and the duration of the eye is 10. Running out of the eye before the smoke dissipates means you’re at equal terms with the enemy. So you either wait 5 seconds before eyeing, or you turn your eye on and off, which may put you at a disadvantage because you may think the enemy is blinded when they’re already through the smoke as you were turning on your eye.

3. Your health bar can be seen through the smoke. If you get shot by someone through smoke, your name and health bar pops up which makes it as though the enemy has redeye as well. I’ve killed several redeyes because I could effectively see them through smoke because of of their health bar popping up.

4. The radius isn’t even really that big. You go to the edge of the smoke and you’ll have good enough visibility to hit people behind it, which makes the smoke have around 2 aura widths of effectiveness.

[Lumi]

@extraordinaryEmperor

Definitely all points that make it completely useless. I agree that the smoke should be more blinding than it currently is and I had noticed my redeye running out before the smoke, but I always assumed I was using the eye before and therefore had not full use time on it. But considering the 5s shortage, I believe that at least should be made to match. In the end, Redeye really needs some love…

[stoutSoup]

Red Eye should be given a SMG. Vassil just outclasses him in every single way possible as a sniper. He should be a more mid - close range scout.

[Szakalot]

Red Eye should be given a SMG. Vassil just outclasses him in every single way possible as a sniper. He should be a more mid - close range scout.

I think they won’t give him automatic weapons due to potential OPness in closecombat smoke situations.

[stoutSoup]

[quote=“stoutSoup;84454”]Red Eye should be given a SMG. Vassil just outclasses him in every single way possible as a sniper. He should be a more mid - close range scout.

I think they won’t give him automatic weapons due to potential OPness in closecombat smoke situations.[/quote]

So what would you propose? We don’t need three snipers assuming Aimee will be one.,

If not an smg, give him Vassils Automatic Pistol.
Recon =/= Sniper

[VincentRJaeger]

[quote=“Szakalot;84830”][quote=“stoutSoup;84454”]Red Eye should be given a SMG. Vassil just outclasses him in every single way possible as a sniper. He should be a more mid - close range scout.

I think they won’t give him automatic weapons due to potential OPness in closecombat smoke situations.[/quote]

So what would you propose? We don’t need three snipers assuming Aimee will be one.,

Recon =/= Sniper[/quote]

I wouldn’t go as far as to call RedEye a sniper, more of a Point Man/Rifleman, as such his rifle should resemble a combat rifle more than a sniper rifle.

RedEye is already meant as a mid-range scout, his abilities in particular define this such as the IR-Goggles which forces you to be at the fray for it to be effective whereas the smoke - with a coordinated team - can cover you and your team up and pop the enemies down without them even having an idea of where in the smoke you lot are… hypothetically speaking of course.

Think of it this way: The problem with RedEye is the Grandeur The problem with the Grandeur is that it’s outclassed by an SMG. Adding an SMG to his loadouts wouldn’t fix the Grandeur, on the contrary it’d make people steer away even more from it, not to mention the - as spoken before - OPness of CQC-Smoke. If you know how to aim with a Combat Rifle, God knows what a beast you will be if you aim with an SMG and pop those heads like crazy, given that on average you can bust in ~100 damage in ~2 seconds with an SMG.

I stand by the fact that the Grandeur is the problem with RedEye, mainly because of the ironsights and the recoil. If I recall right the bloom aswell is ridiculous on the Grandeur which makes it horrible to use in hipfire. That’s where the problem is; It’s not a viable choice. There’s a thread about the Grandeur where some of the suggestions include increasing it’s RoF, better ironsights and a hipfire buff. Of all this I’d personally go for the somewhat increased RoF and lesser recoil, maybe even decreasing the bloom. Small amounts of course, as to not make it a savage overpowered beast.