Phantom, the fragile Assassin (Rework Concept)

(Ronan) #21

[quote=“ghostBase;54392”][quote=“Mercy;53877”]Eh. Being that fragile doesn’t suit the way the character looks. He’s a medium class and his stature reflects that… The weaker mercs are always smaller. Vassili is 110hp and he’s even smaller than Phantom.

To be a waif little speedy assassin, they’d probably make a new character altogether. Some ideas here are interesting but just probably won’t happen with the Phantom character/model.[/quote]

Fragger wears nothing but a Kevlar vest and has 150 HP, while Phantom, who wears a solid metal armor, originally had 120, and now has 110, which is as much as nader, who doesn’t wear armor at all.
I don’t think the visual appearance of a character is taken into consideration when applying balancing changes.[/quote]

If that’s the case, everyone complaining about armor shouldn’t be complaining. LOL.

Since it’s metal armor, of course it’s going to take in damage, that’s the point of it being armor. It’s like the robots in Ghost in the Shell, metal, absorb damage, and have a cloak that is almost unnoticeable.

That’s how it should be. The armor where it stands currently is fine, absorbs enough for it to be armor and everything else.

What I’d like to see changed to Phantom? Well.

Put the visibility back to where it was. He’s basically just wearing a sheet over his head at this point.

Make the cooldown 6 seconds again, as 10 seconds with it being his only ability that isn’t an explosive, etc, should’ve stayed there in the first place.

Melee is being fixed, no reason to comment on that.

I’ve said in posts before, allow Phantom to do what they can do in Payday 2. ‘Mark’ enemies, let it be on a charge-based system. A charge every 6 seconds, maxing at a total of 2-4. Meaning when he has one up, he can cloak, go and mark a Vasilli that’s on a roof that a Fragger might have not seen, letting them show up through walls, terrain, etc, for a limited amount of time. Giving Phantom the ability to not necessarily engage that target, per say, but give a ‘recon’ type-feel, like what he’s supposed to be.

The health where it stands with the current cloak is BS, partnered with the shield nerfs, you die stupid quick. Phantom is a medium-build merc, and Vasilli has 110 health too who is a good deal smaller than Phantom. Not to mention Phantom is wearing a kevlar-metal based ARMOR. It’s armor, as stated above.

(Ronan) #22

My problem with people complaining about Phantom’s armor, what they could’ve done is kept the armor and made his health 100. Would’ve made it decently balanced. What I think a lot of people didn’t realize is that he can’t attack until he’s out of cloak, which is what the nerfs to the overall katana helped with. Once his cloak is down, you fire. When it’s up, you don’t.

The more I look at it, a lot of people didn’t want to learn to play around how he was meant to attack you. They didn’t want to have to ‘pay attention’ and ‘keep an eye out’ for him.

(ghostBase) #23

[quote=“bistreVittle;54811”]My problem with people complaining about Phantom’s armor, what they could’ve done is kept the armor and made his health 100. Would’ve made it decently balanced. What I think a lot of people didn’t realize is that he can’t attack until he’s out of cloak, which is what the nerfs to the overall katana helped with. Once his cloak is down, you fire. When it’s up, you don’t.

The more I look at it, a lot of people didn’t want to learn to play around how he was meant to attack you. They didn’t want to have to ‘pay attention’ and ‘keep an eye out’ for him.[/quote]

first up, i can counter phantom. i could do it before his nerf and afterwards in most situations i can sense him from a mile away. which i should not be able to do.

the problem is not that he’s too strong, the problem is that he does not fit any proper concept. We still don’t know what the fuck he was designed as in the first place.
If he is supposed to be a fighter, he shouldn’t have invisibility added on top of his cloak.
If he is supposed to be an assassin, why does his cloak suck so much D?
If he is supposed to be a recon, why does he have no way of providing sight advantage?
If he is supposed to be all of this, the mix doesn’t fit and he should be outright removed from the game entirely.

the phantom we have cannot be balanced. he needs a rework because he’s currently a complete clusterfuck of underdeveloped concepts, with his strength at launch coming from the fact that his stats were ridiculously overblown.

(Ronan) #24

[quote=“ghostBase;54892”][quote=“bistreVittle;54811”]My problem with people complaining about Phantom’s armor, what they could’ve done is kept the armor and made his health 100. Would’ve made it decently balanced. What I think a lot of people didn’t realize is that he can’t attack until he’s out of cloak, which is what the nerfs to the overall katana helped with. Once his cloak is down, you fire. When it’s up, you don’t.

The more I look at it, a lot of people didn’t want to learn to play around how he was meant to attack you. They didn’t want to have to ‘pay attention’ and ‘keep an eye out’ for him.[/quote]

first up, i can counter phantom. i could do it before his nerf and afterwards in most situations i can sense him from a mile away. which i should not be able to do.

the problem is not that he’s too strong, the problem is that he does not fit any proper concept. We still don’t know what the fuck he was designed as in the first place.
If he is supposed to be a fighter, he shouldn’t have invisibility added on top of his cloak.
If he is supposed to be an assassin, why does his cloak suck so much D?
If he is supposed to be a recon, why does he have no way of providing sight advantage?
If he is supposed to be all of this, the mix doesn’t fit and he should be outright removed from the game entirely.

the phantom we have cannot be balanced. he needs a rework because he’s currently a complete clusterfuck of underdeveloped concepts, with his strength at launch coming from the fact that his stats were ridiculously overblown.[/quote]

To copy one of my above posts.

"Since it’s metal armor, of course it’s going to take in damage, that’s the point of it being armor. It’s like the robots in Ghost in the Shell, metal, absorb damage, and have a cloak that is almost unnoticeable.

That’s how it should be. The armor where it stands currently is fine, absorbs enough for it to be armor and everything else.

What I’d like to see changed to Phantom? Well.

Put the visibility back to where it was. He’s basically just wearing a sheet over his head at this point.

Make the cooldown 6 seconds again, as 10 seconds with it being his only ability that isn’t an explosive, etc, should’ve stayed there in the first place.

Melee is being fixed, no reason to comment on that.

I’ve said in posts before, allow Phantom to do what they can do in Payday 2. ‘Mark’ enemies, let it be on a charge-based system. A charge every 6 seconds, maxing at a total of 2-4. Meaning when he has one up, he can cloak, go and mark a Vasilli that’s on a roof that a Fragger might have not seen, letting them show up through walls, terrain, etc, for a limited amount of time. Giving Phantom the ability to not necessarily engage that target, per say, but give a ‘recon’ type-feel, like what he’s supposed to be.

The health where it stands with the current cloak is BS, partnered with the shield nerfs, you die stupid quick. Phantom is a medium-build merc, and Vasilli has 110 health too who is a good deal smaller than Phantom. Not to mention Phantom is wearing a kevlar-metal based ARMOR. It’s armor, as stated above."

(ghostBase) #25

So you want a character with a crippled design and overblown stats, just like phantom was at launch?

No.

(JC916) #26

This. I would love to see Phantom be like this.

(*;..;*J4n1) #27

Much playable than the current Phantom…

(TheOrangePhantome) #28

Here r some ideas for fixin phantom.

Like instead of a 6 sec cooldown on his cloak make it a 10 or above, also his shield shouldn’t be a dmg sponge and instead it should take about 2 shots to peal it of and it should reduce chest dmg to 40% or less.

Also we all see that Splash dmg wanted phantom to be an agressive class like nader but i’d like to see him have a purpose and give him perks which help out the team play or give him a gadget which disablec the players hood for a short period and allows him to be more stealthy and help the team push out.
I dont think his health should be brought down but i agree for the visibility and backstab bonus dmg. Even thoe i’d like to see either the spoting ability or the emp like gadget to be added.

Give ur ideas.

(ATTEM) #29

But Vassili has 100 hp?

(ghostBase) #30

Yes.

(Crash) #31

I just wanted to point out that I was playing with you on the terminal map and I was in the escalator room when I peered down upon the obj and ponderd to myself as I saw your invisible body residing inside, “Alas! I shall see this helicopter spin that I have heard much about.” Immediately after witnessing the carnage and OPness of it I gathered what was left of my brain, slowly made my way to the lavatory, and began bashing my head upon the hand sink. Never till this day have I laid eyes upon such a disgusting feat.

Until they nerfed the FUCK out of him. Now I laugh until I have to pee.

Thanks SD!

(tastyCover) #32

Nice ideas, but I still prefer the refractive ‘armor’ idea. Speaking about refracting, they nerfed the hell outta him. Seriously! I cant even walk around without being spotted.

If I could change one thing about him, I would add his idle cloak (fully invis) to his walking cloak, and then add his walking cloak (somewhat invis) to his running cloak.

About the Katana, I reckon decapitations would be nice to add in as a ‘Katana only ability’. It would obviously be a one-hit kill, and works like a headshot but you hit the neck instead of the head. They should also work on the anims for when Phantom holds the Katana, using both hands instead of the one.

I also like your idea about the new ‘Spotter’ ability, and I have nothing against that and I even support it.

Your pal, Zach

(Reddeadcap) #33

Really just think they should make him as visible as he was before; This is coming from both ends when fighting Phantom, Even if they try to blend into their surroundings Phantom is completely noticible, before one really had to focus on a Phantom if they saw one scurrying around in the distance.

Giving him 110 health was a mixed feeling for me, maybe 100 and make him faster to compensate or bring him back to 120?

My only other thought would be to make his cloak not drain if he was standing still making Phantom an effective meat shield for teammates who are doing objectives or making him more effective on attacking enemies that are passing by, something about the way he is now visibility wise is just outright silly and noticible without any focus on a player’s part more often then not I see myself using my secondary more often then melee at close range as Melee in general seems flawed with the changes they’ve done, they could’ve done many changes to the katana but instead was applied to it and melee weapons in general.

(ghostBase) #34

[spoiler][quote=“Crash;61447”]I just wanted to point out that I was playing with you on the terminal map and I was in the escalator room when I peered down upon the obj and ponderd to myself as I saw your invisible body residing inside, “Alas! I shall see this helicopter spin that I have heard much about.” Immediately after witnessing the carnage and OPness of it I gathered what was left of my brain, slowly made my way to the lavatory, and began bashing my head upon the hand sink. Never till this day have I laid eyes upon such a disgusting feat.

Until they nerfed the FUCK out of him. Now I laugh until I have to pee.

Thanks SD! [/quote][/spoiler]

That wasn’t me. I never used something this disgusting because it would make me feel worthless as a human being.

(TheOrangePhantome) #35

@ATTEM What r u talkin about. No1 mentioned vagissili.

(Vulcan) #36

I feel the Armor could, and possibly should be removed for significantly better Cloak. 100% Cloak when standing still and maybe around 80-90% cloak when moving.

(frolicsomeCrane) #37

This is…

THIS IS INSULTING TO PHANTOM.

Seriously.

You literally are turning him into a Proxy that can turn invisible. This is disgusting. Proxy is disgusting.

Phantom’s designed to take on all the mercs, in melee mode or otherwise. He is not supposed to run to a healing station or cry for health after getting a kill, especially since he might even lose 90% of the fights he’ll be in.

Once he fires a shot he loses the surprise factor, the weapons you give him require sustained fire from a close range.

NOW EXCUSE ME IF I’M BEING A LITTLE SHIT BUT anyone above and including a Vassili will be able to wreck him with just their secondary weapons if they have any smg equipped, not to mention that Skyhammer, Arty, Redeye, Fragger and basically anyone else will eat him up.

(Nix) #38

This seems like a blanket nurf… Just give him full invisibility anything less is pretty much useless. Then disable attacks until he’s fully uncloaked. Bam, balanced.

In the beta, his cloak drained slower when not moving, and he had full invisibility. Yet he still was considered one of the weaker mercs. As he is now the cloak does nothing if people are even slightly paying attention as you can see him across the map. If had full invisibility he could at least get behind and take out medics/snipers. Right now he’s just a sub-par assault merc.