Phantom Discussion

[STARRYSOCK]

I personally think Phantom is more or less fine, and only needs a few tweaks, mostly to encourage his playstyle. I do play him quite a bit, and I’ve even won several ranked matches with him by disabling enemy aura camps or fletchers.

Imo, the issue with him isn’t him, it’s that people are trying to play him how they did pre-rework, but that strategy no longer works. Slaying isn’t really his strongsuit, it’s messing with the enemy team enough that your teammates can take them out. I’d rather not see him turn into just another assault merc, so what I’d suggest is:

• Increased XP for EMPing/destroying a deployable, to encourage taking out enemy deployables
• Different XP values for each deployable EMP to tell the phantom exactly what he’s just EMPd, and reward players for EMPing an important deployable like med stations, and less for ammo stations. Significant XP would also be great to support EMPing a deployable for more than a second
• Potentially allow phantom to EMP certain merc abilities. This doesn’t have to be a full disable, it could be as simple as decreased healing pulse range, or better counters, like disabling red eye’s IR goggles entirely.
• Louder sound effects when a deployable is disabled, and a different one for each deployable. Both teams should know exactly what’s happening.
• Making his refractive armour more of an “armour”, by increasing the amount of damage it can absorb slightly. 32 HP is next to nothing, and with how easy to detect he can be, I’d like to see a buff there.

I want phantom to be someone unique, not just what thunder was. Having to actually be there to hold a med station down while your team rushed in was a great feeling, and I really hope that it’s not just turned into a grenade so he can become another generic assault merc with an invisibility gimmick. We already have a lot of recon mercs with spotting abilities too, and just because he’s in that category doesn’t mean he has to act just like them.

[Mr.Cuddlesworth]

Make his katana more noob friendly

[NeroKirbus]

This might not be a great suggestion; instead of having the EMP activate while he is invis, have it so it goes off when he comes out of his invis. This way Phantom’s can still be sneaky and be able to flank defensive positions while his team can push the stronghold.

[GatoCommodore]

keep the current cloak system and give him emp grenade instead.

we cant afford to have cloak and cant do anything because this is a fast paced game, by the time you decloak the enemy would have been long gone and misses the kill.

[woodchip]

The current phantom is probably the most balanced of all the phantom iterations. But he’s still not very fun to play, in part because so much of his power revolves around disabling Aura. He comes off as anemic when Aura isn’t on the enemy team.

I have two major issues with his core assassin / ambusher gameplay:

1. He doesn’t have enough self-sustain.

His cloak is visible enough that he can’t effectively attack head on, so he is usually attempting flanks behind ‘enemy lines’. But unlike Proxy, Phantom’s flanking power is heavily tied to his ability to win straight up gunfights. When I play as Phantom I can reliably get the jump out of stealth, but that only gives a 40 hp or so health advantage, after which it is a 110 HP phantom vs an 80 HP standard merc, which is easy for Phantom to win (and about as easy as it can be for him without being obnoxious).

The problem is after this initial fight Phantom is sitting behind enemy lines with 60 HP or so and no friendly medic in sight. But with 60 HP his ambush SMG tactic no longer reliably works, so often he is forced to disengage. Whereas a Shotgun proxy at half health is maybe 80% as dangerous as a Shotgun proxy at full HP, a half HP phantom can’t really continue his flank until he is healed.

This not only feels clunky, it gives Phantom unusually low “upside” potential. It is very hard to pull off exciting streaks with him or other big plays. He is very good at getting that first kill, but it deteriorates rapidly from there. Makes playing Phantom feel robotic: I know I’m going to get the first kill, and after that I’m going to be weak for a while. It’s a monotonous rhythm of "easy kill -->, fair / slightly up hill duel --> run to heal (probably die) or try to wait for natural HP recovery (die).

2. His cloak isn’t quite good enough, especially at longer ranges.

The fact that a walking cloaked Phantom still gets spotted across the map maybe 30% of the time (usually leading to a free death) also contributes to the feeling that with Phantom less of the outcome is under your control. In order to get anything out of the cloak other than EMP you have to rely on your opponents not having keen vision.

I play Pubs, and usually my enemies don’t spot me in a walking flank. But sometimes they do, and more importantly I know that theoretically it’s always possible that they can spot me, no matter how well I play. Not having to deal with that random element is part of why I tend to avoid Phantom.

I would support making Phantom’s cloak effect stronger past say 15 meter range. Enemies who are in Phantom’s kill zone range should be able to spot him like they do now, but I don’t think it’s necessary or good that enemies can spot his walking cloak from medium-long range. For instance, I like to flank the Medical building on underground. But sometimes I’ll be spotted by the just spawning enemies 50 feet back.

Letting his cloak really be a cloak past medium or long range would give him some needed sense of control over his cloak outcomes. “Well, they saw me, but I knew that was a risk when I tried to cloak past them at close range” feels a lot better than “well they saw me, and that’s just something that happens time to time, no matter what I do” even if the statistical outcomes aren’t very different.

…

As for his EMP kit, I would prefer it not radically change even though it is a bit inelegant. A thrown EMP seems appealing, but throwing a projectile before opening up would ruin the smoothness of his ambush rhythm in such a fast paced game.

Perhaps the EMP effect should not work on ammo stations, though. The interaction where ammo stations become a Sting that glows blue when Phantoms are close isn’t very fun. Just makes Phantom’s resent their own abilities.

[FishRolls]

Phantom can be good at taking out single targets, but let’s be honest enemies are rarely isolated outside of low-level games. Because of his ability and choice of weapons, Phantom has to put himself at great risk to be effective, and even then he doesn’t have the firepower to take out more than one competent enemy. I might as well play an assault or fire support since they can do the same job better with less risk involved.

One way I think you could improve his survivability is by letting him pick up batteries to lower his cloak cooldown, batteries drop from enemies and deployables that die within his emp range. You could also increase the amount of damage he can take while cloaked so he isn’t shut down by a stray bullet.

One thing Phantom is lacking that could completely change him is an E ability. Maybe it could be used to give him more range, provide utility, or even be a weapon. There are tons of possibilities and I hope SD investigates something like this for Phantom in the future.

[BlackboltLW]

By the way, if you guys will actually give him the EMP grenade/throwable thingy, please use the throwing knife model, so it could fit the ninja/samurai aesthetics that he have.

Maybe only one throwable knife with around 25s of cooldown? Doesn’t matter, you knows best about the stats but please give him the knife if you’re going to give him EMP grenade or some sort of throwable device

[anon41468043]

@BlackboltLW said:
By the way, if you guys will actually give him the EMP grenade/throwable thingy, please use the throwing knife model, so it could fit the ninja/samurai aesthetics that he have.

Maybe only one throwable knife with around 25s of cooldown? Doesn’t matter, you knows best about the stats but please give him the knife if you’re going to give him EMP grenade or some sort of throwable device

Definitely. I was thinking something along the lines of the shock charge from Black Ops that emits an EMP pulse within a certain range and can stick to most surfaces.

[MikeGreene1990]

I like this thread.

1. Give him EMP grenades.

2. Force cloak to use melee only, but give him 60 seconds of invisibility and a buff to near by friendly deployables say 25% when in his proximity. Remove EMP from cloak for enemy deployables.

3.Allow the cloak to mark enemies he is next to.

4. Debatable, but allow him to not break cloak when attacking using melee. But make him easier to spot when sprinting.

[l2c]

His cloak.
It’s too obvious. What I mean about that, is that it’s always visibly and audibly apparent. Even crouch-walking, which is HELLA-SLOW, you’re visible, and everyone can hear you. And that’s not even mentioning the EMP aura revealing the presence of a nearby Phantom. Either make it silent, less visible, or preferably both. Only oblivious and inexperienced players won’t notice you sneaking around, especially after noticing there’s a Phantom on the other team.

His EMP.
His EMP aura is only as good as his teammates ability to ACTUALLY ACT ON DEPLOYABLES BEING DISABLED. Too many times my team just watches disabled camps, and then hides again, while I’m sat there, slowly draining my cloak, for no effect. I’d suggest a grenade, but that’d just be destroyable, so I’m hesitant. Maybe a pulse that disables for X seconds or something.

His Katana.
Like it or not, he was introduced with his OWN melee weapon. Just stating that he isn’t meant to be a melee merc does not make it true, unless you can actually show dev’s stating the same. I’m willing to bet ALOT of people bought him SOLELY due to stealth and sword.
That said, no, you shouldn’t JUST melee. Let me repeat myself, cause I know people will hate, NO, you should NOT just melee. Use your gun. But it would be sweet if he was actually the best at meleeing. Right now, (especially with the melee bug (try to kill someone near a wall)), he’s just not. Kira is way better, and anyone with an objective in their hands kill faster (like, honestly). I’d like a slightly faster heavy attack. Not sure it needs more.

I like Phantom. He’s the reason I started playing DB. He’s the merc with the most hours played (for me). Unfortunately, if your team can’t take advantage of the EMP, he’s rather useless with most objectives. You can’t spam artillery on ev’s, you can’t ninja-repair (fast atleast), you might be able to steal the jug if your team is distracting, but still. He has no ammo, no health to give, and doesn’t spot anything.
Don’t think he needs MASSIVE changes tho. Just small adjustments to balance him slightly stronger, maybe change the emp to a pulse or something.

[GatoCommodore]

@l2c phantom works wonders on aura nest with her teammates shooting at friendlies and suddenly they arent feeling so invincible anymore, panicks and go phantom hunting.

makes me laugh everytime

[kopyright]

@l2c said:
I’d suggest a grenade, but that’d just be destroyable, so I’m hesitant.

So is Vaseline’s heartbeat sensor. The true skill lies in placing it somewhere the enemy cannot find it.

[Lord_Coctus]

I don’t think Phantom needs a very big buff. I would suggest only making him less visable while standing still or walking. I also wouldn’t mind a small increase in the EMP’s range.