Phantom and Thunder Updates

(Reddeadcap) #81

Looking at these again I’m pretty upset and excuse my wall of text…

So SD removed Thunder’s viable ability to lock or even just decrease the mouse sensitivity of his concussion grenades because apparently an ability that’s meant to leave enemies vulnerable for Thunder and Co. was too much for some people, because god forbid someone’s mouse sensitivity is fucked with, instead movement speed and vision is affected which has taken SD how long, 5 months only to have the only other viable effect, Thunder’s EMP given to Phantom and it removed from Thunder, the lower cooldown would’ve been nice if the concs actually concussed the enemies, not having a flashbang effect because those are two different things.

As for Phantom, it’s taken 10, TEN months for an actual change? I know there tends to be too many “This is how you could fix this merc.” threads going around but some actually were to slap on an emp to his cloak, others suggested either a really powerful but high cooldown and risk detection tool or a really simple one but the emp was applied, not only that but also removed from Thunder?

Thank you for finally giving Thunder the 10 health that would match his movement speed for when he was released but like I’ve mentioned before Phantom’s speed and health still don’t match and Vasilli is also too fast, still moving as if he had 100 health.

(l2c) #82

All that time, promises of Phantom rework, and that’s what you come up with? Rofl.
EMP, fine, utility, etc etc… but other than that, 10% duration? How 'bout some speed, or less visibility? Sigh…

(AnonOmis1000) #83

Just crouch while cloaked. You’re damn near invisible.

(Merci1ess) #84

SD just literally looked at all the suggestions for Phantom during those 8 months… Laughed at them for the whole time, took them… then “Kobe!” straight into the fuckin’ bin. So lazy… A Phantom rework would’ve been waaaayyy too god damn hard wouldn’t it? Oh fuck that… Ain’t no body got time to use the brainzzzzz.

This brings back memories of me when I was in high school and had homework to do. I would wait until the last second to do them and then I would just write anything just to show that I did something. That’s exactly what this looks like to me. Such a joke.

(strawIgloo) #85

GREAT…!! So now dick phantom’s won’t just be teabagging players… They’d be teabagging proxy’s mines too…

(zrs1337) #86

[quote=“AnonOmis1000;178079”][quote=“ThunderPro;177880”]So many damn f-ing times I’ve been pointed out his OWN PRIMARY WEAPON FIREPOWER is the most crippling part of him, and yet you guys touch the concussion AGAIN?

What, is this a 'Take this and don’t come around again you minor Thunder users.’??

I really do appreciate 170HP buff,(eventhough I still think 180 is the right number to tank. Still think this isn’t enough as machine gun Thunder except Stark Thunder, but this isn’t his problem right? lt’s about burst rifles’ OPness.) and I hope there would be more Unshakables at 2nd genereation loadout for THUNDA, but this conc buff is just so absurd.

I’ll look on movement speed decrease buff, since right now the slow effect doesn’t work somehow because of the bug(only works sometimes.), but the fuse time is so damn stupid.

I can’t even throw it far away after you guys fixed the fuse time. Just give me back the damn cooking, ok?

Removing the Deployable Scrambling EMP effect? FINE. Just change the name conc’s name in to FLASHBANG.

Just give me stronger MK.46 that I can wipe out enemies faster with nice set of DPS and TTK, so I don’t have to expose my self further, and get my huge watermelon head smashed by enemies.

and seriously, PHANTOM is no longer a RECON. But I expect his ambush against healing stations, so that his katana swoosh won’t be meaningless.[/quote]

The Mk46 Has an almost the same amount of DPS as the K121. The Mk46 has a DPS of 132.9 while the K121 has a DPS of 135.1. In addition, the Mk46 has a faster reload, 0.3 seconds shorter than the K121, and has noticeably less recoil. It otherwise has an identical speed modifier and ADS time as the K121. So, really, what are you complaining about? how is it so much weaker than the K121 when, on paper, it’s just a side grade?[/quote]

I don’t know the wiki says that it has good dps, but when you try to play with MK46 it just feels like shit, unsatisfying. Sometimes I waste a whole magazine for 1 enemy, it supposed to kill an enemy in 10-15 bullets if you hit their body, but it just does no dmg. K121 feels so much more powerful or any other weapon, I’m even more satisfied with shittiest smg than MK46. Thunder has nothing good damage source, he has no grenade like Fragger or Minigun so he is just 0 as assault compared to those 2 mercs, and now they remove the only useful part of his nade, because that slow is close to nothing on that nade, flash is stupid because you flash yourself harder than enemies, I only see 1/10 enemy actually being affected by flash or slow, most of the times I throw nade into a room, hud says that I concussed 2-3 enemies, I go in an they’re already thousands meters aways, because that slow does nothing actually.

(melancholyComet) #87

should have just make the katana heavy attack damage 110 and make phantom less visible instead of making him more visible by letting the enemy team know that he is in the room because he disables their equipment

(AnonOmis1000) #88

[quote=“zrs1337;178284”][quote=“AnonOmis1000;178079”][quote=“ThunderPro;177880”]So many damn f-ing times I’ve been pointed out his OWN PRIMARY WEAPON FIREPOWER is the most crippling part of him, and yet you guys touch the concussion AGAIN?

What, is this a 'Take this and don’t come around again you minor Thunder users.’??

I really do appreciate 170HP buff,(eventhough I still think 180 is the right number to tank. Still think this isn’t enough as machine gun Thunder except Stark Thunder, but this isn’t his problem right? lt’s about burst rifles’ OPness.) and I hope there would be more Unshakables at 2nd genereation loadout for THUNDA, but this conc buff is just so absurd.

I’ll look on movement speed decrease buff, since right now the slow effect doesn’t work somehow because of the bug(only works sometimes.), but the fuse time is so damn stupid.

I can’t even throw it far away after you guys fixed the fuse time. Just give me back the damn cooking, ok?

Removing the Deployable Scrambling EMP effect? FINE. Just change the name conc’s name in to FLASHBANG.

Just give me stronger MK.46 that I can wipe out enemies faster with nice set of DPS and TTK, so I don’t have to expose my self further, and get my huge watermelon head smashed by enemies.

and seriously, PHANTOM is no longer a RECON. But I expect his ambush against healing stations, so that his katana swoosh won’t be meaningless.[/quote]

The Mk46 Has an almost the same amount of DPS as the K121. The Mk46 has a DPS of 132.9 while the K121 has a DPS of 135.1. In addition, the Mk46 has a faster reload, 0.3 seconds shorter than the K121, and has noticeably less recoil. It otherwise has an identical speed modifier and ADS time as the K121. So, really, what are you complaining about? how is it so much weaker than the K121 when, on paper, it’s just a side grade?[/quote]

I don’t know the wiki says that it has good dps, but when you try to play with MK46 it just feels like @$!#, unsatisfying. Sometimes I waste a whole magazine for 1 enemy, it supposed to kill an enemy in 10-15 bullets if you hit their body, but it just does no dmg. K121 feels so much more powerful or any other weapon, I’m even more satisfied with shittiest smg than MK46. Thunder has nothing good damage source, he has no grenade like Fragger or Minigun so he is just 0 as assault compared to those 2 mercs, and now they remove the only useful part of his nade, because that slow is close to nothing on that nade, flash is stupid because you flash yourself harder than enemies, I only see 1/10 enemy actually being affected by flash or slow, most of the times I throw nade into a room, hud says that I concussed 2-3 enemies, I go in an they’re already thousands meters aways, because that slow does nothing actually.[/quote]

The wiki states that their DPS are almost identical, and I dare say that the Mk46 is THE most satisfying gun to use in the game. The high rate of fire and sound it makes just makes it feel like an honest to god LMG, and even without drilled the reload animation is as smooth as silk. Whether or not the K121 feels more powerful is irrelevant. The weapon statistics show that one is not inherently better than the other.

(RyePanda) #89

No, the EMP only occurs when Phantom is using the cloak, so if he is uncloaked, untrackable will still help him. @Recin

(Black) #90

No, the EMP only occurs when Phantom is using the cloak, so if he is uncloaked, untrackable will still help him.
[/quote]

Still, the emp remains active even after he uncloaks for several seconds unless I read the below bullet point wrong.

  • Enemy Deployables remain disabled for 5s after leaving the EMP field.

Untrackable is actually going to make him very dangerous as deployables and ineffective against him.

(AnonOmis1000) #91

No, the EMP only occurs when Phantom is using the cloak, so if he is uncloaked, untrackable will still help him.
[/quote]

Still, the emp remains active even after he uncloaks for several seconds unless I read the below bullet point wrong.

  • Enemy Deployables remain disabled for 5s after leaving the EMP field.

Untrackable is actually going to make him very dangerous as deployables and ineffective against him.[/quote]

If I understand it the EMP field is only on when he’s cloaked. When he uncloakes the field goes away. however, anything that gets EMPed will be disabled for 5 seconds after it stops being EMPed.

(UndeddJester) #92

Allows Phantom to scout well, and disable enemy defenses for his team. Also gives him nice windows to assassinate key players on the enemy team now that turrets, healing stations and proxy mines don’t gimp his assassination attempts at every turn.

Sounds pretty recon to me.

(AnonOmis1000) #93

[quote=“FatalJ;178647”]Allows Phantom to scout well, and disable enemy defenses for his team. Also gives him nice windows to assassinate key players on the enemy team now that turrets, healing stations and proxy mines don’t gimp his assassination attempts at every turn.

Sounds pretty recon to me. [/quote]

Still cant spot enemies.

(HunterAssassin5) #94

i’d rather Thunder’s concs keep their deployable-disabling ability. Doesn’t make much sense for a visual cloaking device to come equipped with EMP.

I sort of understand where SD is coming from with that, since you dont want to be blown by mines, turrets and the like while cloaked, but imo the EMP effect will be much more useful on the conc, and without, it’s usefulness just plummets, even with the HUD turned off if youre 100% flashed.

hell, just the other day, I made use of the conc to surprise some guys that were camping on the MG nest on the second point in Bridge by flashing the mines they were hiding behind. please dont take that away from me.

(NetflixandKill) #95

[quote=“TheRyderShotgun;178698”]i’d rather Thunder’s concs keep their deployable-disabling ability. Doesn’t make much sense for a visual cloaking device to come equipped with EMP.

I sort of understand where SD is coming from with that, since you dont want to be blown by mines, turrets and the like while cloaked, but imo the EMP effect will be much more useful on the conc, and without, it’s usefulness just plummets, even with the HUD turned off if youre 100% flashed.

hell, just the other day, I made use of the conc to surprise some guys that were camping on the MG nest on the second point in Bridge by flashing the mines they were hiding behind. please dont take that away from me.[/quote]

And now with Phantom, you can go invis and silently (minus audio cue that is not as loud as a conc grenade explosion) disable the mines. Yeah it sucks that Thunder is getting nerfed, but at least this tweak to Phantom settles one of the community’s biggest complaints about him: no use in team fights. Now in Bridge 2nd Obj, you can have a Phantom stealth in and disable all of the deployables, making the room easier for the attackers to take.

(Drac0rion) #96

@NetflixandKill
The problem is, they didn’t improve his sneaking for it to be effective enough to reach those results.
You can still be caught mid flank just as well as before and 10m isn’t that long.

  • on top of that you need to be well coordinated so that the EMP field takes effect and both sides collapse on the defense at once. Otherwise just RIP Phantom, as the EMP effect should immediately notify the higher skilled players of his presence assuming the defense is set up well.

Honestly the EMP field just improves his solo flanking as he can ignore the mines/turrets and can just focus on the enemy positions.

I really don’t appreciate SD forcing Phantom being a melee oriented kamikaze ninja, especially considering the melee hitboxes.
(Just assuming this based on the EMP field range and Chopper on every revealed loadout so far.)

(zrs1337) #97

Yeah maybe you could say that MK46 is ok if it was used by other merc. But compared to other assaults 1 thing that Thunder really needs is more damage. Fragger easily instagib anyone with a good nade, Nader can do it to, Rhino has his OP us fuck minigun, while Thunder has a useless crowd controll effect, because it really does nothing, whenever I throw it into a room and enemies get concussed (at least hud says that, and I hear them saying "Wtf i can’t see)… Then I rush in and they have no problem shooting and tracking me, they can run full speed no problem… So gun with avarge dps on an assault who has no other source of damage, yeah sure there is no problem with that… But engineers can have abilities that can instakill anything, but assault can’t even can have an above avarge primary or useful ability. :slight_smile:

(SzGamer227) #98

If it’s not too late for my 2 cents to amount to anything:

I’m very pleased to see Thunder’s health increased to finally match his hitbox and speed. However, I still believe that for Thunder to truly be viable, he needs to Debilitate Conc’d enemies to emphasize his role as pointman on an assault like he was advertised to be. If EMP were given back and Debilitation implemented, Thunder would actually pose a viable threat to enemies camping on Heal Stations.

As for Phantom, it is still very weird how he is classified as a recon merc but has no recon/spotting ability. Seriously Splash Damage, I didn’t compile a big list of Spotting abilities that play into his character and make him more viable as an assassin so that you would go off and give him a random EMP effect that doesn’t seem answer any real concerns that people have about Phantom.

(AnonOmis1000) #99

[quote=“SzGamer227;178830”]If it’s not too late for my 2 cents to amount to anything:

I’m very pleased to see Thunder’s health increased to finally match his hitbox and speed. However, I still believe that for Thunder to truly be viable, he needs to Debilitate Conc’d enemies to emphasize his role as pointman on an assault like he was advertised to be. If EMP were given back and Debilitation implemented, Thunder would actually pose a viable threat to enemies camping on Heal Stations.

As for Phantom, it is still very weird how he is classified as a recon merc but has no recon/spotting ability. Seriously Splash Damage, I didn’t compile a big list of Spotting abilities that play into his character and make him more viable as an assassin so that you would go off and give him a random EMP effect that doesn’t seem answer any real concerns that people have about Phantom.[/quote]

I agree with your Thunder idea. I think it debilitating enemies for the duration they are concussed would be very viable. It also seems really inconsistent when an enemy will get concussed or just blinded. I still have no idea how that works.

(BomBaKlaK) #100

@RazielWarmonic Maps needed !! Hurry up !