Patch Notes: The Nader Update v45134 (23rd April 2015)

(BioSnark) #21

[QUOTE=shoe.;525668]
Levels

[ul]
[li]Fixed some issues with the final defenders spawn on Dome[/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

Is this a euphemism for removing dome from rotation?

(tangoliber) #22

[QUOTE=shoe.;525668]
Marginal increased the spread penalty when jumping to discourage bunny hopping in combat

Increased hip-fire spread by ~7%[/QUOTE]

I formally protest these changes, as I shall any and all accuracy or movement speed reductions. Boooo.

Glad to see Nader back. :slight_smile:

(Destroy666) #23

DB is so much more enjoyable to play after weakening the healing w̶a̶l̶l̶ station and bunnies (especially sniper bunnies). Not a fan of dealing with several Naders and Fraggers in the opposite team though.

(ragnak) #24

So just played for 2 hours, yea fragger is still overpowered as expected but at least aura is less of a problem. Oh well.

(PixelTwitch) #25

Why is there no mention of the Sniper Nerf in these patch notes, and the changes on terminal?

(BomBaKlaK) #26

Changes on Terminal are really minimal … Nothing really change, the map is still broken …
And I don’t see any sniper nerf ?

(Smooth) #27

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;525998]Changes on Terminal are really minimal … Nothing really change, the map is still broken …
And I don’t see any sniper nerf ?[/QUOTE]

Sniper scope sway when moving has been increased to make jump-sniping more challenging as well as sniping while moving.

This was unintentionally missed in the update notes so I’ll add it in now. The changes may have also been a little over-zealous but we want to see what player reaction is first and maybe pull back in the next update. At this stage that’s preferable to (and faster than) making several little barely-noticeable incremental steps until players complain.

It may also highlight issues with the sway system in general that need to be looked at beyond simple sway amount.

(Mustang) #28

Like not all moving is equal? Strafing != Jumping

(PixelTwitch) #29

In the current system its now easier to jump shot then it is to strafe them into your crosshair. I know I am jump shotting more than ever :slight_smile: I suggest a animation with a bounce on scope in and a bounce on jump also. Basically have the scope slightly lag behind your vertical movement. There are so many things to try. Sway should really be the last resort

(ToonBE) #30

Tried vassilly and I agree.

(INF3RN0) #31

Fragger still feels about the same to me honestly. Nades need a mechanic that discourages cooking unless you’re skilled at getting grenades to land very close to enemies (see alpha nades). The k121 ‘nerf’ didn’t change much. What will actually effect it are things like adding more recoil, reducing the body damage, slowing fragger by 5-10% when wielding it. It’s perfectly fine if the k121 is going to have the highest headshot damage, but please make it harder and more risky… the m4/ak/br16 loadouts are otherwise inherently unnecessary options.

(ragnak) #32

I really hope that we wont have to wait months for another fragger nerf. Its not so bad right now because a lot of people doesnt have him but i dread the day when he gets into free rotation again :(.

(montheponies) #33

Really? Despite the turret spam, nader spam (c/w martyrdom) and sniper hs this is still ur no.1 problem?

(ragnak) #34

Yes, by far. While it can get annoying when there are few turrets or a lot of naders its generally easy to deal with. After the nerfs martyrdom is really easy to deal with, nader also have only 100hp and weaker gun, turret can only kill you from the back but yea its pretty annoying when there are like 3 of them. The only problem i ever had with vassili was machine pistol and that it was kinda too easy to kill with at times.

The most important thing here is that, fragger is pretty much good on every map and every phase, while being the best duelist and group killer in the game. Nader isnt good on open space, bushwhacker need to have good spot to hide his turret and vassili cant snipe too well at close range (machine pistol aside but at least its not an assault rifle). Fraggers terrorise me at every moment, i never feel safe or can work around his weaknesses because he have non, cant rush him like nader to make his grenades unusable, can poke him like i do with bushwhacker because of grenades and even if i flank him like i would do with vassili he still have an upper hand because of his high hp and the best gun in the game.

So yea, fragger is still the biggest issue of the game, by far.

(spookify) #35

[QUOTE=ragnak;526514]Yes, by far. While it can get annoying when there are few turrets or a lot of naders its generally easy to deal with. After the nerfs martyrdom is really easy to deal with, nader also have only 100hp and weaker gun, turret can only kill you from the back but yea its pretty annoying when there are like 3 of them. The only problem i ever had with vassili was machine pistol and that it was kinda too easy to kill with at times.

The most important thing here is that, fragger is pretty much good on every map and every phase, while being the best duelist and group killer in the game. Nader isnt good on open space, bushwhacker need to have good spot to hide his turret and vassili cant snipe too well at close range (machine pistol aside but at least its not an assault rifle). Fraggers terrorise me at every moment, i never feel safe or can work around his weaknesses because he have non, cant rush him like nader to make his grenades unusable, can poke him like i do with bushwhacker because of grenades and even if i flank him like i would do with vassili he still have an upper hand because of his high hp and the best gun in the game.

So yea, fragger is still the biggest issue of the game, by far.[/QUOTE]

Play in some 5v5 on the MM que or get in some pugs… It sheds a whole new light on mercs… Mercs are actually pretty balanced plus remember there are more mercs coming. We have no idea how many SD is playing but we do know is that there will be “more”…

Also try pubbing in 6v6 SW servers… If you cant que up try that. Its the closest thing and its actually fun to pub if the teams are pretty even.

The maps are really holding the game back…

(ragnak) #36

Not that i disagree with maps being bad but i dont expect them to change too much. The only good change that i can think of that SD made to maps was first phase at underground so it doesnt look good 8D. I cant see how 5v5 would make fragger less overpowered and from what i heard people roll 2-3 fraggers everytime per team (and i seen some 5v5 on stream and it looked exactly that way).

I was here when we had all the mercs and i still found the fragger to be the best, why do you think that would change ? People said that nader is good against fragger but as far as i seen fragger is ****ting on nader and the only 2 mercs i can think of that could be good against fragger would be rhino and redeye (sure, there will be some really new ones but leaving fragger overpowered for months just incase there will be someone good against him is silly at best). Even if fragger was somehow balanced in 5v5 he would still be overpowered in pub play, that would drive people away and we need all the pub playes we can get because without pub play there wont be comp play.

Anyway, i could probably live with him (there is still no reason to use m4 over k121 but oh well) if his grenades wasnt so grossly overpowered and offer no counter play whatsoever. Slower traver time and longer cooking needs to happen.

(spookify) #37

You didnt play ET or RTCW did you…

This would rek him. He is the DB killer… If you nerf him anymore people will play Sawbonez and rambo medic.

There’s more mercs coming and I dont think people realize that. Group and team play is very limited to the mercs we have. The game only really has one killer so why not play him and run pocket medics on him.

There is always going to be that one OP class or that “OP” combination and the best SD can do is semi balance those mercs but dont rek them.

Side Note: Some mercs are very good on specific maps. I think in a few months this argument about an OP fragger will be ancient history; especially with more mercs coming out and combination that might blow your mind on some maps.

(ragnak) #38

Played ET for few years and was on pretty much every major lan tournament in my country. I honestly cant see what this have to do to prove your argument that his nades are fine when:

  1. ET nades did fly slower
  2. ET nades had to be cook longer
  3. It was more risky in ET as it took longer to equip grenade AND it took longer to change back
  4. Everyone had a grenade
  5. It was easier to kill someone who is cooking a grenade because hp difference wasnt so big there
  6. You could survive almost direct hit from it if you saw it coming (you dont even have time to react in db because they fly so fast)
  7. ET had better sound so you could hear them easier
  8. It was easier to spot them in ET
  9. Grenades there wasnt on a merc that is better at duels then any other merc
  10. Grenades in ET didnt had a cooldown so you could at least guess if they have a grenade or not ( as you needed field ops for that).
  11. Grenades in ET didnt fly across half the map
  12. ET had more open maps so there were places where you could feel pretty safe
  13. Thats more of a guess but i have a feeling that grenades in ET had less aoe damage as it was kinda hard to kill 3 not to mention 4 people with 1 grenade, i can kill 3-4 people with 1 grenade constantly in DB.

As such making fragger grenades fly slower and cook longer wouldnt ruin him, i would even dare to say that fragger is one of the strongest merc even if he hadnt have grenades at all because he have the best guns in the game with the most health at the moment (which will change in the future, but he will stay as the one with the most). As a side note i agree with some mercs being good at some parts of the map, sadly fragger is good on every map and every part of the map so its kinda silly. The only combination that blown my mind at the moment is fragger on healing station, mind blowing indeed.

(montheponies) #39

I get everything you are saying, but it sounds like you want to be able to beat Fragger in a 1v1, when in reality that shouldnt be the case. If an equal skilled Fragger and Sawbonez meet, the Fragger should win everytime. If your team isn’t packing a decent Fragger, that’s unfortunate but little different to not having a decent sniper (I was getting terrorised by two good snipers on Chapel last night, god the rage).

Personally there is no point in saying that you’re going to have an Assualt class that is the brute force of the team and then making him just slightly better than the other class types. It’s one reason why I quite like the MGs - they should be great at killing things, however the placement of them should make flanking possible.

As spookify says a lot of this is down to the maps. They remain the biggest issue and are probably making Fragger appear more potent than he actually is…but respect your opinion!

(Szakalot) #40

in the end fragger’s nades are uncounterable, which is the main problem here.

Uncounterable tactics scale very badly with player skill.