[QUOTE=stealth6;462886]
There are a lot of games that look the same. That’s why I think using mechanics that are 10 years old will be refreshing. [/QUOTE]
This ! Look at all big kickstarters projects. Old school games with no inovations, but this kind of games are so rare now that a lot of players pledges on them.
Oh and ten years ago, ET was one of the 3 most played FPS online (http://goty.gamespy.com/2003/pc/index12.html , I remember that it was number one at one moment). It’s clear now that there is much more fan of COD/BF/CS now, but the concurrence is really big on this part of market.
You can’t say that there is not a lot of fan of ET.
In 2007, before the release of COD4/ETQW/TF2, ET was still in the top 5. Just behind Counter Strike 1.6, source and bf2. More players than in bf2142 and COD2.
[QUOTE=Erkin31;462915]This ! Look at all big kickstarters projects. Old school games with no inovations, but this kind of games are so rare now that a lot of players pledges on them.
Oh and ten years ago, ET was one of the 3 most played FPS online (http://goty.gamespy.com/2003/pc/index12.html , I remember that it was number one at one moment). It’s clear now that there is much more fan of COD/BF/CS now, but the concurrence is really big on this part of market.
In 2007, before the release of COD4/ETQW/TF2, ET was still in the top 5. Just behind Counter Strike 1.6 and source. More of players than BF2/2142 and COD2.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps my sites are a little high (after all I am a Dome Breaker) but I don’t consider 10K players successful these days. I was hoping DB would hit 50 - 80k within a couple of years of tuning and content (maybe even more.) There are so many more gamers now than 10 years ago. Even BLR which had glaring flaws, more so than DB’s alpha, peaked at 10K or so players for it’s steam launch and a month or so after.
These are stats from the last 48 hours. I would love to gobble up some of those DoTA 2 players that retired FPS games because their hasn’t been one worth playing in the last 7 years.
[QUOTE=Anti;462964]This site is very good for Steam stats, you can see the impact of related games, DLC and eSports events on player numbers if you use it right.
[QUOTE=strychzilla;462963]Perhaps my sites are a little high (after all I am a Dome Breaker) but I don’t consider 10K players successful these days. I was hoping DB would hit 50 - 80k within a couple of years of tuning and content (maybe even more.) There are so many more gamers now than 10 years ago. Even BLR which had glaring flaws, more so than DB’s alpha, peaked at 10K or so players for it’s steam launch and a month or so after.
These are stats from the last 48 hours. I would love to gobble up some of those DoTA 2 players that retired FPS games because their hasn’t been one worth playing in the last 7 years.
strychzilla : Yes, there are more players today. What I wanted to say is that ET is a FPS which marked the history as CS, BF, Quake or UT. And we talk about a game which was heavily played during 10 years !
The elements which made the success of the game ten years ago can also make it now.
New players can be attracted by a such FPS, the bad thing is to consider that new players can’t love a spiritual successor of ET because it would be too skilled/old school/complex or too far of the concepts of current FPS.
Again, my prefered example is Tribes Ascend. Tribes 2 had less players than ET and the core gameplay is more complexe to learn than in ET (Z axis, no hitscan, speed, skiing, etc.). Tribes ascend is a new game which is different of Tribes/Tribes 2 but which conserve all trickjumps and concepts which made the success of Tribes and Tribes 2.
And the result is here :
For the other point of your post, I don’t find the comparison with MOBA games fair. This is a kind of game which attract a lot of players, for a lot of elements which can be adapted to FPS.
Why moba games attract a lot of players ?
Don’t require a good PC. Great for students who has no money.
Easy to use (4 abilities, one click on the mouse to move or attack). Compared to RTS, it’s really easy.
Don’t need a lot of skill. It’s easy to manipulate. (we are far from a fast fps or even a simple FPS). It’s a question on learning.
We play in team = Less pressure. A noob can play support, nobody wait exceptional actions from him.
Really good learning curve. (easy to use, hard to master)
Creation of tactics/strategies in game, with others players (coop/teamplay but with competition !).
Theses games are made for the competition. I even think that spectating a competition of a MOBA is more pleasant than on a FPS.
So here we are. I don’t consider that characters are THE reason which make the success of MOBA. There is a lot of others reasons.
Anyway, it’s a F2P, so SD need to attract players to buy characters. Not to copy MOBA games, but because it’s how they can earn money.
I generally love F2P with this kind of customisation. But for a fast FPS, it’s a dangerous concept.
Look at best FPS/esport : CS, Quake. Few weapons, no classes.
The important thing is the balance between players. This is what Nadeo try to make for shootmania (and what they made for Trackmania: Only one type of car)
Add a lot of elements in order to differenciate characters can create a rough game.
What I know, is that I don’t want to play against an heavy (slow), and I don’t want to see powerfull weapons with recoil.
Excellent post Strychzilla. Quote for truth less increasing hitboxes, I think that there are ok. As already commented, there are more factors to improve the gunplay.
[QUOTE=stealth6;462886]While this is fun and what I already do basically, how does this work for pub? Then you’re grouped up with a bunch of randoms and if they have bad picks, then what?
Promoted by the fact that it’s a team game, so if you’re paired with 4 less than average players you’re probably going to have a bad time. In moba games you could at least carry your team by buying the right items if you know what you’re doing. Now imagine you’re a medic in DB… lol :D[/QUOTE]
By pub do you mean joining a queue or a dedicated server? If you’re going to pub I assume you would be joining a dedicated server. If you’re going to PUG I would hope you picked 4 people that know how to play around your level.
How many FPSs have MOBA elements? Now how many have class based objectives? This game may not be a sequel or remake but it still pulls a lot from WET.
I like your approach to the characters strych. I applaud you with this post and I would absolutely play a game with the type of changes you mention. What I don’t like is the terrible classes we have now its a tdm fest, but with actual character-classes you mention it would be perfect. Someone hire strych to work on your board SD.
I wouldn’t have expected you to like most of what he posted, but glad we’re all focusing on helping DB break new ground and encompass the same amount of quality and skill as ‘old school’ games had- even if it is probably going to become the first MOBA FPS.
I definitely think there is room for a moba/fps game. But take this for what you will, firefall has already done it. Skill shot fps mechanics + 3 abilities with cooldowns + 1 extra powerful ability.
I defintely think the two games are different enough that this is not an issue. But you can learn from what firefall has done well and what it has done poorly.
pros:
[ul]
[li]15 characters, 5 archetypes 3 variations per archetype (sound familiar? lol), each unique in its own way. Each character (they call it battleframe) even within its own archetype has its own flavor and role. For example, in the biotech archetype you have the standard biotech, recluse, and dragonfly. Dragonfly is mainly a support healer, recluse is mainly a slayer that uses toxins, and biotehc is midway between the two roles.
[/li][li]They intend to release new frames (don’t quote me on this) monthly. What that says for the competitive scene I don’t know. But they have plans on having a lot of frames similar to MOBAs.
[/li][li]Primary weapons for the most part all very skill based.
[/li][li]Jetball is a pretty unique mode even though it bears striking resemblance to bombing run from UT2k4. The power ups and the jetpacks make this mode very unique.
[/li][/ul]
cons:
[ul]
[li] Too much focus on abilities, especially the HKMs (which are like ultimates). Some of the HKMs take very little skill to pull off and are way too effective. There are some ways to build up a HKM (its not cooldown based rather you build it up by damaging or taking damage) so that its too available.
[/li][li] Its most unique aspect in movement (jetpacks and hovering) are too slow and too little control over it makes the skill based weapons too easy to hit airborne targets.
[/li][li] No spawn waves and spawn sites are too easy to camp (at least in jetball). Its strange that they do such a good job designing the jetball mode (aside of the HKM issue and some other balance issues but its still a WIP too) but fail to see the need for spawn waves. Its very team based almost to the point that you’ll probably never win a 1v2 relying on skill alone (assuming equally skilled players) just because 2 will always out dps 1.
[/li][/ul]
So my take on this (and I am very tired while writing this) in terms of the MOBA aspects, I’d love to see a ton of characters in the game.
I think keeping the abilities all require aim and judgement is the direction to go. I don’t think you should move to the 3 abiltiies and ultimate though. And I like how most of the abilities aren’t cheesy (I think the only 2 I dislike are turrents and mines, maybe the sticky mines but only because the former two are too lethal). I kinda like it as it is atm with 2 abilities and we’ll see how ultimates turn out. Hopefully the ultimates in this game are not too crazy. In firefall a well timed HKM can either wipe an entire 5 man team out or take a 5 man team down to 40% hp in an instant.
Seriously, comp in firefall is a drag right now since it revolves around bumrushing with hkms with an assortment of other buffs applied to your team right before.
I remember you said you didn’t play firefall in a long time. With its current version and the last (probably around 8 months old now), it probably would fairly claim the title of the first fps-moba
[QUOTE=stealth6;463000]By pub I mean if you are playing solo. So then you’d join a queue and be thrown in a team (moba style) - that’s going to suck.
The current build of DB doesn’t pull much from W:ET at all anymore. Not that it should, but they got everybody’s hopes up and now crush our dreams [/QUOTE]
That would suck if the game was classless or not. I’m not really sure I’m understanding your perspective here. If you wouldn’t want to random queue why not join a dedicated server? I was just saying it would be nice to have able to queue for 5’s and maybe 1v1/2v2 aim maps. Random queueing in any game will be a shot in the dark without a perfect match making system (which doesn’t exist.)
