New Brink PC Update Brings End Game Chat and Lots More

(Jimmy James) #281

What, you don’t think I can’t vault over a waist-high wall while carrying a minigun then mow down a group of people!!! I’ll show you…

-JJ

(Nexolate) #282

I think documentation for supposedly 97 variables per weapon may be a bit much, however if we were able to access variables like the quantative values used for the stats bars then that’d really benefit the Wiki.

I tried some debug codes on the menus today and no dice. Currently we have to physically measure the bars to get a statistics and its very tedious.

Regards,
Nexo

(riptide) #283

[QUOTE=zenstar;348059]Actually used to work in a gunstore when I was a kid and did plenty of shooting. Would probably still be shooting as a hobbyist if I didn’t live in London.

Different models of gun respond differently. Slight imperfections in the same model of guns result in an individual gun responding differently to another gun of the same make and model. Wear and tear make a gun respond differently over time. Different ammunition will cause the gun to react differently. An experienced shooter knows this and is why a competition shooter will do his upmost to minimise and counteract as many of these factors as possible (reloading his own ammo, custom grips, practiced stance, etc) and even then something as simple as “feeling off on the day” can be the difference between a perfect score and a loss.
These things are all sources of randomness.

You yourself say “…nearly same way every time…” which means that there is some difference every time you fire. This is caused by a million different things from the slight difference in powder load in each bullet to the wind, the stance you’re in when you fire to the distance to your target. All of this is effectively randomness.

Also remember that you generally sight your gun to a certain distance and if you’re shooting further or closer you have manually adjust your aim to what you expect it to be. And that adjustment is guesswork with a degree of error. Add to that “combat conditions” of running and gunning and you have massive amounts of variance.[/QUOTE]

There is nothing random about guns in real life all of the things you speak of are in gun owners hands.

We are talking about deviations of less than a millimeter which would not result in bullets going 2 feet off target at rifle range… Each gun shoots differently because of the barrels are never identical… however each gun will respond the same way every time. That is what I want in Brink the guns need to respond the same way every time so players have control over it, just like I would have control over it in real life.

(Jimmy James) #284

Assuming the human firing the weapon was completely infallible and perfectly consistent in their aim. As soon as I find one I’ll let you know.

Oh and lets not forget the wind (or air resistance in general), the shooting range will need to be in a vacuum.

-JJ

(nick1021) #285

Why are you stilling talking about this? You are putting realism into a video game!

(zenstar) #286

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;348280]Assuming the human firing the weapon was completely infallible and perfectly consistent in their aim. As soon as I find one I’ll let you know.

Oh and lets not forget the wind (or air resistance in general), the shooting range will need to be in a vacuum.

-JJ[/QUOTE]

Lets not forget minor differences in ammunition. Even manufacturer’s ammo differs slightly from batch to batch and I’m pretty sure that in an Ark type situation it’s probably (at least on the resistance side) going to be at least 1/2 reloads and hand carved dum-dums.

Also: If we’re talking range conditions we’re already illiminating a lot of randomness that is introduced “in the wild”. Such as the slight sway of a giant city floating on water or the imperfect maintenance of a firearm in a rebel group’s hands.

Either way: this is a silly point and (as has been pointed out) really has nothing to do with a game. And considering my original point was “Stick to arguing about whether randomness is viable in the game and lets not talk about reality” I think we should agree to disagree on whether or not “accuracy” is a viable statistic for real world guns. I think it is. Obviously some people agree with me and some people disagree. Enough said on this topic I think.

(Rahabib) #287

[QUOTE=Nexolate;348275]I think documentation for supposedly 97 variables per weapon may be a bit much, however if we were able to access variables like the quantative values used for the stats bars then that’d really benefit the Wiki.

I tried some debug codes on the menus today and no dice. Currently we have to physically measure the bars to get a statistics and its very tedious.

Regards,
Nexo[/QUOTE]

the debug would be just fine if they would open it up.

(riptide) #288

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;348280]Assuming the human firing the weapon was completely infallible and perfectly consistent in their aim. As soon as I find one I’ll let you know.

Oh and lets not forget the wind (or air resistance in general), the shooting range will need to be in a vacuum.

-JJ[/QUOTE]

You do realize you just amplified my point, right? The fact is the guns are reliable. Why can a skilled sniper consistently shoot half mile to mile long shots? With WAY more variables than any AR/SMG would have to deal with. It’s because they account for all the variables and adjust.

In Brink it doesn’t matter who or how skilled the person is shooting, because you can’t account for anything to make it hit your target reliably.

In case you missed it… The point is the guns respond the same way every time. They only deviate if the person operating it isn’t skilled enough. Brinks guns go against that.

(taodemon) #289

[QUOTE=riptide;348396]You do realize you just amplified my point, right? The fact is the guns are reliable. Why can a skilled sniper consistently shoot half mile to mile long shots? With WAY more variables than any AR/SMG would have to deal with. It’s because they account for all the variables and adjust.

In Brink it doesn’t matter who or how skilled the person is shooting, because you can’t account for anything to make it hit your target reliably.

In case you missed it… The point is the guns respond the same way every time. They only deviate if the person operating it isn’t skilled enough. Brinks guns go against that.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, the bullet lottery can be really annoying sometimes. If you still want to give certain weapons more spread make it due to recoil and not the gun just shooting at a random spot in a circle.

My problems with the gun mechanics are most noticeable when using ADS.

If my I have my ironsight on the enemies head my bullet should go there if I pull the trigger and not a foot to the left or right just because I´m on the 3rd or 4th round of a burst or sequence of shots on a semi auto weapon. Use the weapon recoil to move the sight and cause spread/variance that way, otherwise you get the loose, sloppy, and rather unrewarding weapon/gun mechanics we currently have in the game.

The bullets don´t need pinpoint accuracy, there can be small variance, but they shouldn´t be hitting everything but the target if your sight is in the center of it.

Of course there might be nothing they can do to change this depending on how the gun mechanics are programmed (as in the visual recoil has no affect on the round trajectory and it is all decided by the random generator with some assistance from the gun pulling in a random direction). In which case we would just have to keep sucking it up for all the other more enjoyable aspects of the game.

(Jimmy James) #290

Yes, I will agree that good snipers are very skilled.

[QUOTE=riptide;348396]
In Brink it doesn’t matter who or how skilled the person is shooting, because you can’t account for anything to make it hit your target reliably.[/QUOTE]
Try short bursts with your AR/SMG, it makes a huge difference.

[QUOTE=riptide;348396]
In case you missed it… The point is the guns respond the same way every time. They only deviate if the person operating it isn’t skilled enough. Brinks guns go against that.[/QUOTE]
You’ve obviously never fired a semi-automatic rifle. (Yes I know I’m comparing video games to reality again but I used to work in a military VR lab where realism was a key factor.)

-JJ