martyrdom

(Destroy666) #21

If the game hasn’t been finished yet - then yes, suggesting removal of several core abilities and weapons doesn’t sound reasonable.

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;528250]
People suggest removing a single ability, LiNkzr goes off the rails claiming we’re suggesting everything gets removed. Calm down dude and quit the strawman bull****.[/QUOTE]

First of all - single abilities and weapons* - there are few of them mentioned in this thread. Not noticing that (or pretending not to notice) is what I would rather call straw man. Secondly, removing them would render the affected mercs much more useless (can you imagine Bushwhacker without turrets or frail Proxy without ****gun/mines being used?) and possibly lead to removal of other “overpowered” things - domino effect. “overpowered” because martyrdom is in fact a very weak ability, unless a player has no idea that gibbing is important. Lately I played against teams full of Naders and I don’t think I died more than 2-3 times from martyrdom as someone mentioned earlier in this thread too. And I’m not even good.

(DarkangelUK) #22

We suggest removing one ability and he says we want ET with all abilities removed and you think that’s hardly strawman? I suggest you look up the definition again mate.

What exactly is it countering that requires a counter? It’s a skill less death bonus, it gets kills and causes damage regardless what all the ‘pros’ here are saying.

(DarkangelUK) #23

[QUOTE=Destroy666;528259]
First of all - single abilities and weapons* - there are few of them mentioned in this thread. Secondly, removing them would render the affected mercs much more useless (can you imagine Bushwhacker without turrets or frail Proxy without ****gun/mines being used?) and possibly lead to removal of other “overpowered” things - domino effect. “overpowered” because martyrdom is in fact a very weak ability, unless a player has no idea that gibbing is important. Lately I played against teams full of Naders and I don’t think I died more than 2-3 times from martyrdom as someone mentioned earlier in this thread too.[/QUOTE]

Individuals mentioned individual items, they were then all lumped into one group by people and claimed it as a single request to remove all of them, so nahhhh no such request to remove multiple items at the same time ever existed except in peoples minds. This is the martyrdom thread, I discussed martyrdom, I don’t give a hoot if turrets were mentioned and I honestly don’t care how often people are killed are not killed by it. It’s a ****, skill less, lemming mechanic that rewards (even slightly) dying. I’ve not seen a single quantifiable reason to keep it, and the fact the pro-martyrdom people are saying its useless and it barely gets any kills only strengthens the argument to remove it.

[QUOTE=Destroy666;528259]
First of all - single abilities and weapons* - there are few of them mentioned in this thread. Secondly, removing them would render the affected mercs much more useless (can you imagine Bushwhacker without turrets or frail Proxy without ****gun/mines being used?) and possibly lead to removal of other “overpowered” things - domino effect. “overpowered” because martyrdom is in fact a very weak ability, unless a player has no idea that gibbing is important. Lately I played against teams full of Naders and I don’t think I died more than 2-3 times from martyrdom as someone mentioned earlier in this thread too.[/QUOTE]

Individuals mentioned individual items, they were then all lumped into one group by people and claimed it as a single request to remove all of them, so nahhhh no such request to remove multiple items at the same time ever existed except in peoples minds. This is the martyrdom thread, I discussed martyrdom, I don’t give a hoot if turrets were mentioned and I honestly don’t care how often people are killed are not killed by it. It’s a ****, skill less, lemming mechanic that rewards (even slightly) dying. I’ve not seen a single quantifiable reason to keep it, and the fact the pro-martyrdom people are saying its useless and it barely gets any kills only strengthens the argument to remove it.

(Destroy666) #24

Now this is a part of the initial post:

Did you mention straw man somewhere?

EDIT:

How exactly does it strengthen it? Nader’s 1st ability is medium (not the best, not the worst), so a 2nd weak ability, which mainly forces people to be careful around her, pairs quite well with it. Both combined make her useful in both close and ranged combats, which is good considering it’s a fragger/soldier type of class.

(yakcyll) #25

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;528261]We suggest removing one ability and he says we want ET with all abilities removed and you think that’s hardly strawman? I suggest you look up the definition again mate.

What exactly is it countering that requires a counter? It’s a skill less death bonus, it gets kills and causes damage regardless what all the ‘pros’ here are saying.[/QUOTE]

It’s an exaggeration, if anything. He just follows your train of thought - martyrdom is annoying, let’s remove it - oh, what about shotguns, turrets, etc.
What requires a counter is people’s ability to gib everything that’s lying on the ground and still moving. It doesn’t involve much interaction on the downed player’s part, I can give you that, and it doesn’t actually affect anyone who played this game for more than a week. You have to face it though, it’s here to stay since casual players need some easy to use abilities that don’t involve shooting and still net them points in a shooter.

(DarkangelUK) #26

I’ll concede that I didn’t see that, apologies. However, there was a very high demand for a ‘retro’ mode that more or less mirrored ET by removing the nonsense and abilities, and it was a VERY popular demand (and apparently I can’t say what SD said on the matter), but lets say ch3w0nth1s is in no way alone in this thought process.

[QUOTE=yakcyll;528267]It’s an exaggeration, if anything. He just follows your train of thought - martyrdom is annoying, let’s remove it - oh, what about shotguns, turrets, etc.
What requires a counter is people’s ability to gib everything that’s lying on the ground and still moving. It doesn’t involve much interaction on the downed player’s part, I can give you that, and it doesn’t actually affect anyone who played this game for more than a week. You have to face it though, it’s here to stay since casual players need some easy to use abilities that don’t involve shooting and still net them points in a shooter.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree, gibbing doesn’t require a counter, if anything lying there and in a position where you can be revived is still a positive over already losing a gun fight. You died, your team ‘may’ revive you but you fkd up and you caused your own incap… adding another positive of the potential to kill the person that already killed you is, for lack of a better phrase, bull****.

(LiNkzr) #27

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;528250]

People suggest removing a single ability, LiNkzr goes off the rails claiming we’re suggesting everything gets removed. Calm down dude and quit the strawman bull****.[/QUOTE]

why does he insist on taking away turrets for example, instead of mentioning “can we have a promod that takes away all abilities” or why does he just want to remove shotguns :>

(Runeforce) #28

It was fun the other day when I rushed a medic, engie, and assault, with a healing station and a turret, and removed 'em all. And it’s quite easy on the pub.

(ch3w0nth1s) #29

Fair enough but it’s what year 3 of alpha/beta. You can understand restlessness.

Nope.

How has suggesting the ability to mod the game bad? Huge competitive games are all modded by the players for a better experience in competition and public servers. I never gave details of this hypothetical mod that’s on you.

(yakcyll) #30

Yo, come on.

(ch3w0nth1s) #31

I made the post about martydom. Those were after thoughts really.