Maps all done and dusted? Some issues

(BomBaKlaK) #21

Only 1 new SW map for the next update, and I feel like old maps will stay the same cluster**** as they are actually …

(Demolama) #22

Agreed. To revisit them would take away too many manhours from producing new maps. It is just really sad that they have refused to publicly acknowledge just how tedious and boring their SW/Obj maps really are. Even worse is when you find out that their execution maps are actually better than their SW/Obj maps. Which unfortunately tells me either they do not have any mappers working on the game who has a clue on what makes a good SW/Obj map or they are overruled by someone higher up clinging on to that BS front line philosophy I talked about before.

(Szakalot) #23

I blame echo for this. too much effort is put into having a constant shifting frontline and areas of engagement.

Underground between the 1st and 2nd objective is the biggest example of how ridiculous it gets: ‘we gotta stop them NOW! oh wait… they will spawn on top of us in 1min anyways’ and ‘we gotta push NOW… if we somehow get through we will have defenders spawning on top of the final objective… or we could just wait a minute and exchange fire pointlessly’

(Demolama) #24

I know exactly what you mean. That awkward middle part of underground feels like it really should have another objective.

(Szakalot) #25

yeah, the thing is it applies to other maps as well. Whole chapel EV section is filled with secret checkpoints that push the spawns for either attack or defense. While it might sound good on paper it lacks context: ET escort missions would have specific challenges (barriers) that give you something to fight for, rather than ‘lets push the EV two more meters’. On the other hand bridge-EV escort is a lot more exciting, barrier generator gives a proper context and the escort itself isn’t too long, and also you’re not pushing into enemy spawn.

Trainyard has abysmal 2nd-3rd objective spawn shifts for attackers, that simply add another 20-30sec running time and nothing else.

Terminal has the same problem after wall is blown. Defense can setup a chokehold that makes for an interesting puzzle, how to break out, who to prioritize, enter after airstrike/redeye smoke etc.; xcept that after 1min you will spawn ontop of the defense and can simply ignore them.

(light_sh4v0r) #26

Agreed, spawnpoints in those maps are very unclear. There is no way to know why or when exactly they switch position.

(Demolama) #27

True, since Terminal is a ported Oasis it should have pretty close to the same areas of engagement, but as you said the shifting spawn areas make pretty much all of the final engagements in the area around the objectives and rarely the courtyard, which gives it that meat grinder feel. I guess the movement of defenders spawn to the back rather than having attackers run through it and moving the attackers spawn to the area in front of the wall has a lot to do with that as well.

Same can be said with the Goldrush port, no one really fights in the courtyard except to return the stolen items.

(Violator) #28

My two main bugbears are:
Final objective spawncamp meatgrinds (chapel, trainyard, terminal to a lesser extent).
Dynamic forward spawns. Artificially shortens the map time + makes defending chokes pointless. If we do have to have them, they should only kick in once defenders have actually been pushed back.

(Szakalot) #29

[QUOTE=Violator;540391]
Dynamic forward spawns. Artificially shortens the map time + makes defending chokes pointless. If we do have to have them, they should only kick in once defenders have actually been pushed back.[/QUOTE]

this would be most easily down with some easy-to-cap permanent forward spawn points. Esp. Underground could benefit from one around the area of the mid-elevator.

(Violator) #30

More cappable spawns would get my vote. I was more talking of perhaps some radius check around the origin of the forward spawn zone (assuming its a rectangle) as in this example:

dynospawnz.jpg512×512 35.2 KB

Green lines - walls
Orange box - dynamic spawn area where attackers will spawn
Red cross - current enemy player positions
Blue circle - if any defenders are within this circle (simple distance check from dynamic spawn origin) dynamic spawn will not be available yet. In practise the radius would be larger than in the example. If the radius is clear for X seconds then spawn becomes available. In this case there are 2 players inside so spawn won’t be available. Once the spawn is available it is available for the rest of the round, even if defenders return.

The circle could be changed to a polygon more suited to the terrain.

(Kl3ppy) #31

It always confuses me how long do I have to defend the elevator @ underground. Suddenly I’m surounded by enemies. Would be better if there is a capturable Spawnpoint. This would also encourage defenders to be more aggressive. Would reminds me at my old ETQW days :slight_smile: