[MAP] Tides of War

[FrostyChilli]

Hey!

I’ve done some changes and improvements to the map. I’ve also made 2 separate versions. 1 is normal, other is Dri version. Dri version is just like normal map, but it has 4 Dri posters placed in the map.

Changelist:

• Added some rooftop edges to the buildings to prevent walking off the roof too easily(slipping). See screenshots.
• Added foliage
• Improved command map
• Added Allied house basement wall to the list of objectives(wall was destructible before, but was not written in objective description)
• Fixed minor visual issues

Dri only changelist:

• Added Death Row Inmates posters

I am really glad that this map is almost at its finished state. Now it just needs testing and I might have a plan to improve its overall look even further.

Download and screenshots links have been updated in the original post but I’ll paste them here as well.

Download

tides.rar

Download DRI version

tides_dri.rar

Screenshots

[Album] Tides of War

Thank you!

Cheers,
Frosty

[stealth6]

You could have done the Dri poster stuff with a skin pack instead of releasing the whole map twice.
I haven’t checked the map, but I presume in 1 version you use the default posters from pak0 and in the dri version some special textures.

What you should have done is applied a texture that’s has a shader. In the shader you say copy the image from pak0.pk3 Then you make a 2nd pk3 file with the Dri textures and a new shader that overwrites the old one. Better for the longevity of the map since now you’ve already split the community into 2 versions.

Another advantage of overwriting with a skinpack is that any clan / community could use it (change the posters) and you could even use the same principle in multiple maps so 1 skinpack works for multiple maps.

[FrostyChilli]

@stealth6
In 1 map there are no posters at all. In the second map there are Dri posters(custom textures).

Why make a 2nd pk3 file? Isn’t that like making another map? Where can I read about skinbacks? Any links?

Cheers,
Frosty!

[stealth6]

Well I don’t know about skinpack tutorials, but sometimes when you join a server they have custom skins on the players. Well the same thing can be done for maps.

Problem is if you use a texture from pak0 and then overwrite it with a skinpack it will be changed in every single map that uses that texture. That’s why you need to use the shader step.

Advantage is that then players only need to download your map once and if they join the Dri server then they only download the new poster textures. So download will be less. The other advantage as I said in the prvious post is that you could potentially reuse the poster textures again in another map. Also then each community could have their own version instead of Dri or nothing

[twt_thunder]

Map is looking better and better

[FrostyChilli]

@twt_thunder Thank you!

@stealth6
Wouldn’t it just work if I for example made a folder called “skins” in my map’s .pk3 texture folder. tides>textures>skins.
In skins folder there would be 3 textures called “poster1”, “poster2”, “poster3”.
Now in my tides.shader file, I would make a shader, which takes its texture from tides/textures/skins folder, and is called either

tides/textures/skins/poster1.tga,
tides/textures/skins/poster2.tga
or
tides/textures/skins/poster3.tga

Now when other communities want to add their own posters then they just have to either make their own .tga file, call it poster1,2,3 and save in correct resolution(512x512 etc…). Or just change .shader file and change the name there.
Is that how skin stuff works or is it some special -shader file thingy?

Cheers,
Frosty!

[Mateos]

On a clean installation, the foliage texture/shader is missing

Few questions I should have asked on day one:

• Why a team door to a house which has two regular doors?
• Allies can blow up sewer entrance to get… in front of the spawn. Why?
• Corridors are narrow and some walls are really thick, any reason? I know the inspiration source is a 1o1 map, but stone wall of 1 of depth… ^^’
• The textures on the mountains could benefit some shader work

Excepted these details I like it, nicely designed and textured

[FrostyChilli]

[QUOTE=Mateos;515855]On a clean installation, the foliage texture/shader is missing

Few questions I should have asked on day one:

• Why a team door to a house which has two regular doors?
• Allies can blow up sewer entrance to get… in front of the spawn. Why?
• Corridors are narrow and some walls are really thick, any reason? I know the inspiration source is a 1o1 map, but stone wall of 1 of depth… ^^’
• The textures on the mountains could benefit some shader work

Excepted these details I like it, nicely designed and textured[/QUOTE]

@Mateos
It is weird that they are missing, I checked on a clean installation and they worked fine. I will test on another computer later some time. Does anyone else have the same problem?

1. To prevent the enemy team from marching straight into your spawn. This means they have to take a longer route. You could consider the front door as a heavily guarded entrance and the other 2 ones backdoors, which are the weakness of the base. Why not lock them? Firstly, they are backdoors, weaknesses. Secondly, I think the flow would be better. Because I remember in old LNA 1v1, there were sometimes situations where for a small amount of time, the bases were “swapped”. Allies took over Axis building, Allies took over Axis building. This means an unwritten objective for both teams: to take back their building, by eliminating every enemy member. And it adds action and simply put, fun. This map is not big, both sides are mirrored and there is not much detail. If you limit the map even more(whole buildings locked up), it just makes the map even smaller than it already is.

2. Sewer entrance will be useful when the Generator is destroyed. A player has an option to never leave the house and use the sewers(stealthier way) to infiltrate the Axis base. Hmm…it is a point to think about actually. Because it would be especially a stealthy route when the generator is not destroyed and an allied covert ops in disguise could open the door into Axis basement. Right now the door in the basement is unlocked for Axis only, and not covert op. But then again. If the door could be passed by an allied covert op and the dynamite is planted on the final objective without a warning, the attention of the Axis team would have to go into their basement. This would create a diversion, which Allies can use to destroy the generator in the middle building without having to worry about overwhelming Axis numbers. It might be a little bit OP in the favor of Allied team. But it definitely is a thing to think about and is worth testing. Thanks for pointing it out!

3. Corridors are narrow because I am simply limited by the size, though yes, the sewer area could be made bigger. The reason why they were narrow in the first place is that I didn’t want people to be fighting in the sewers. By making it narrow, people tend not to go there. If they were larger, it would mean that Axis defense would be weaker. It is much easier to protect a narrow area. Though again, when Allies manage to push through and make it to the last objective, Axis’s only entrances are 2 very narrow corridors. And that is something I already thought about when developing the map. And it is one of the reasons I want this map to be tested. I thought about adding a manhole or something similar through which Axis forces could descend straight into their basement. And there would be no way up. I will probably have this map up on Dri server, which means everything can be tested and changed accordingly. If the need arises, I will change things.

3.1) I believe you meant to say “thin”?. If that is the case then, as I mentioned earlier, this map is small and should not include any hard to enter “fortresses”. I believe making walls thicker would add a feeling of too much security. The buildings need to look vulnerable.

4. The mountains were made using EasyGen, which unfortunately does not have much functionality for changing visuals. But if you mean walking on stone while having footsteps sound like grass and being able to plant landmines on rock, then I agree. These need to be changed.

Cheers,
Frosty!

[Mateos]

I’m not convinced by 3.1) but I’m OK with it

As for mountains, I meant: http://i.imgur.com/LbZpxq8.jpg

Quite noticeable height, tweaking the shader would smooth it

Edit:
Ah also: in the sewers, lighting comes from nowhere, and before the gate there’s a corner which leaks outside

[stealth6]

[QUOTE=FrostyChilli;515822]@twt_thunder Thank you!

@stealth6
Wouldn’t it just work if I for example made a folder called “skins” in my map’s .pk3 texture folder. tides>textures>skins.
In skins folder there would be 3 textures called “poster1”, “poster2”, “poster3”.
Now in my tides.shader file, I would make a shader, which takes its texture from tides/textures/skins folder, and is called either

tides/textures/skins/poster1.tga,
tides/textures/skins/poster2.tga
or
tides/textures/skins/poster3.tga

Now when other communities want to add their own posters then they just have to either make their own .tga file, call it poster1,2,3 and save in correct resolution(512x512 etc…). Or just change .shader file and change the name there.
Is that how skin stuff works or is it some special -shader file thingy?

Cheers,
Frosty![/QUOTE]

If you make a new folder then you don’t need the shader, but I think you’ve got the gist of it now.

[FrostyChilli]

[QUOTE=Mateos;515874]I’m not convinced by 3.1) but I’m OK with it

As for mountains, I meant: http://i.imgur.com/LbZpxq8.jpg

Quite noticeable height, tweaking the shader would smooth it

Edit:
Ah also: in the sewers, lighting comes from nowhere, and before the gate there’s a corner which leaks outside[/QUOTE]

How could I tweak it? I have absolutely no idea.

Lighting, agreed. I should add light sources. And I will check the leaks.

Cheers,
Frosty!

[Teuthis]

Apart from everything Discussed Here I think we should emphasize that You are on the fast Track lane Frosty. I highly appreciate your enthusiasm. Keep Going man. Good work. Rom wasn’t Build in a Day and we all learn every Day New Stuff in the radiant as well. Working with movers, blending, Shaders is Not easy but it’s damn rewarding if you see that your hard work pays off.

[FrostyChilli]

@Teuthis

Thanks!

It really is challenging and at the same time fun and rewarding. And shaders, as you said, is not easy stuff. Since it is my first map to be released, I am glad how everything has been going. People are helping, giving positive and negative feedback, the map is improving thanks to everything. Exactly as it is supposed to be. I really like level designing and I hope to in the future not to do it just as a hobby but as a professional career. So everything learned here will come useful. And speaking of movers and such, the next map in development is full of them. It will be a very interactive map. Probably more than it should be for a quick paced multiplayer game like ET is. There is however a lot of visual work to be done before it can be released. Meanwhile I will try to make Tides of War look, and feel better.

Cheers,
Frosty!

[Mateos]

I suggest shader-wise to bookmark the following:
http://robotrenegade.com/q3map2/docs/shader_manual/contents.html

Since you used EasyGen, you can adapt your shaders with the ones of the vanilla maps, I’d go for Fuel Dump terrain shaders

[FAQIS]

Hello, I’ve tested this map and here are my ideas:

1 the rooms are far too small, make them bigger so all weapons can be used. look at radar, fueldump and adlernest to get some inspiration

2 all foliage got the (non existing texture) texture for missed textures, so please, next time you release the map do I suggest to check such small bugs

3 take away long corridors and if you need to be advanced, place signs.

4 the mission is really confusing… I suggest that you describe it better.

[FrostyChilli]

[QUOTE=FAQIS;516141]Hello, I’ve tested this map and here are my ideas:

1 the rooms are far too small, make them bigger so all weapons can be used. look at radar, fueldump and adlernest to get some inspiration

2 all foliage got the (non existing texture) texture for missed textures, so please, next time you release the map do I suggest to check such small bugs

3 take away long corridors and if you need to be advanced, place signs.

4 the mission is really confusing… I suggest that you describe it better.[/QUOTE]

Hey!

1. So all weapons can be used? What do you mean exactly. The map is not supposed to be containing any big rooms or large buildings. Do you mean they start to get too small when there are 20+ players or they just feel small?

2. Yes, I am well aware of that, and I will fix the issue. Thank you for pointing it out though!

3. Long corridors? Do you mean the sewers? If so, then first of all, they are not really that long. Secondly, I am actually thinking about making a second parallel corridor in the sewer system so it wouldn’t look and feel so dull.

4. Thanks for pointing this out as well! You are already the second person to mention that and I will try to make things more clear. Though I do have a question. By “describing it better”, do you mean the text description is unclear and messy or do you mean that in-game hints and pointers to the objectives are not clear?

Thank you for your feedback!

Cheers,
Frosty!

[FAQIS]

[QUOTE=FrostyChilli;516142]Hey!

1. So all weapons can be used? What do you mean exactly. The map is not supposed to be containing any big rooms or large buildings. Do you mean they start to get too small when there are 20+ players or they just feel small?
   [/QUOTE]

they feel small… and the heavy weapons like flamethrowers can be used very efficient in the small rooms. you can look at different maps but the main idea (as I think) is that you should have 10 meters free space to slide on when you use weapons like thompson or mp40… a claustrophobic feeling doesn’t give me good gut feelings about that… and also if someone is camping inside a really really small room (or narrow corridor) can they totally dominate others, think if one person taking an efficient weapon and place it somewhere in for example Bremen, the gunner can get ONE kill using that strategy, next time will his enemies make a double jump in, roam “HELLO” and then fill his head with an overdose of lead…
but if that space for the double jump don’t exist? what should they do then?
so make the rooms of the same size as the rooms of the popular maps, indeed, sure you need choke points like in all the other maps but make the rooms a little bit bigger if you want my gut feeling at your side.

and v44 to you

[FrostyChilli]

Hey!

I’ve done some updates to the map but at the moment I don’t have an updates Dri version of the map. It will be added later in the future with a “skinpack” update. Generally I changed the look of the map a little bit and made the objective more clear. Also fixed minor visual bugs.

Changelist:

• Fixed a bug with missing foliage textures/models
• Added roads/paths, which lead to main objectives/areas around the map
• Blocked off the bridge, which should make players understand that it is not their main direction to go to.
• Added signs, lamps and over all detail above ground
• Added lamps and some detail in the sewers.
• Made the Axis basement larger

If you find any bugs or have any suggestions for improvements, let me know! I still have some visual work to do plus I haven’t had a chance to test the map on a bigger server.

Download and screenshots links have been updated(except DRI) in the original post but I’ll paste them here as well.

Download

tides.rar

Download DRI version

tides_dri.rar

Screenshots

[Album] Tides of War

Thank you!

Cheers,
Frosty

[Teuthis]

[QUOTE=FrostyChilli;516707]Hey!

I’ve done some updates to the map but at the moment I don’t have an updates Dri version of the map. It will be added later in the future with a “skinpack” update. Generally I changed the look of the map a little bit and made the objective more clear. Also fixed minor visual bugs.

Changelist:

• Fixed a bug with missing foliage textures/models
• Added roads/paths, which lead to main objectives/areas around the map
• Blocked off the bridge, which should make players understand that it is not their main direction to go to.
• Added signs, lamps and over all detail above ground
• Added lamps and some detail in the sewers.
• Made the Axis basement larger

If you find any bugs or have any suggestions for improvements, let me know! I still have some visual work to do plus I haven’t had a chance to test the map on a bigger server.

Download and screenshots links have been updated(except DRI) in the original post but I’ll paste them here as well.

Download

tides.rar

Download DRI version

tides_dri.rar

Screenshots

[Album] Tides of War

Thank you!

Cheers,
Frosty[/QUOTE]

Just a General comment: the ET Community gets distracted if too many Versions of a Map appear in a Short Time. It finally Results in That People might have a bad Feelings of the Map, what we of Course want to avoid. A Suggestion to Handle this is e.g. To First send the Map to volunteers for Testing before the Official Release. Then you get all the Feedback you need to make one and only One Public Release. Having two Official Versions is still ok i think but the more Versions you release the higher the likelihood That People get distracted.

[Mateos]

Nice changelog! And hail to Teuthis!