Lets talk about PING in DB.

(Mustang) #21

This would help a lot, and while you’re at it fix spectating so it shows what the guy you’re spec’ing sees, rather than what they will see in 300ms.

(Szakalot) #22

Agree with Voshy that the system needs a ping limit. Maybe not 120, but sth above 150-200+

Otherwise, I’d much rather prefer ‘what you see is what you hit’ over ‘what you see is what you can be hit by’

(Szakalot) #23

this!

everybody looks like they cant aim when specced ; D

(Violator) #24

Pretty well what Voshy said above. I also disagree with this statement -

[QUOTE=Smooth;525036]
When it comes to combat, we feel that it’s MUCH more important that players hit what they see, rather than have to lead targets based on ping. Getting shot after you’ve run around a corner is a little annoying on occasion, but it would be much more frustrating if all the bullet YOU fired were offset a little by ping or didn’t hit because ‘server said no’.[/QUOTE].

The local (ie low ping) player should always have the advantage in any latency calculations imho. In the corner kill case the high pinger should be forced to lead their target offset by the ping difference, not the low pinger be punished for the reverse.

(poiuasd) #25

[QUOTE=Violator;525191]
The local (ie low ping) player should always have the advantage in any latency calculations imho.[/QUOTE]
And that is the case in DB. Higher ping doesn’t grant you any additional time to put extra bullets into the enemy.

(Violator) #26

Not true. (see the ‘corner kill’ scenario above). You effectively get (your ping - enemy ping) time as a higher ping player to land shots so that it always looks correct from the shooters POV (see Smooth’s post).

(Smooth) #27

If they have the same reaction time, the LPB’s bullets reach the server first however and can kill the HPB before their shots are registered.

We do have a short window of ~166ms where double-kills are allowed to reduced HPB frustration of bullets vanishing into the ether.

In the end, there’s always going to be an issue when playing with high latencies so that’s what we aim to reduce.

(Violator) #28

[QUOTE=Smooth;525218]If they have the same reaction time, the LPB’s bullets reach the server first however and can kill the HPB before their shots are registered.

We do have a short window of ~166ms where double-kills are allowed to reduced HPB frustration of bullets vanishing into the ether.

In the end, there’s always going to be an issue when playing with high latencies so that’s what we aim to reduce.[/QUOTE]

Ah that would explain the ‘simulkills’ then :). Makes sense from a LPB shooting POV, I was referring to the HPB shooting.

(poiuasd) #29

You can only hit your target when they are on your screen. Having higher ping doesn’t extend the time the enemy is on your screen.

(Mustang) #30

Unless you start with low ping when they appear, then change to high ping before the disappear. :smiley:

(Szakalot) #31

or peek a corner:

  • your enemies see you later (your ping -> server) => you have more time to kill them.
(Mustang) #32

No it doesn’t work like that, because even if you killed them they’d still have the additional time of the message reaching them plus the lag/jitter compensation.

(INF3RN0) #33

I like how half the people think high ping is an advantage and the other half think the opposite. I agree with Smooth entirely and I’d play any high/low pinger any day in DB because the best aimer will almost always win regardless.

(Violator) #34

Its an advantage in certain situations currently for both ‘parties’. HPBs have the corner-kill advantage and LPBs have the general less choppiness advantage. There is no magic bullet to solve the issue but I still feel the LPB should get the benefit as in a given server they will be the majority.

(Zenity) #35

They absolutely do not have the advantage, unless they abuse by triggering lag but that’s a whole different story.

Every negative thing that can happen to you against an HPB, happens to them ALL the time, because the ping roundtrip from them to you is the same as from you to them. E.g. if you peek a corner as an LPB, they will not see you for an equal amount that you would not see them if they were the ones peeking.

HPB moves around a corner:

  • They see you instantly at your old position.
  • 200 ms for that move to arrive at the sever.
  • 50 ms for that move to arrive at you.

You (LPB) move around a corner:

  • You see them instantly at their old position.
  • 50 ms for your move to arrive at the server.
  • 200 ms for that move to arrive at the HPB.

An advantage the LPB always has is that their actions arrive sooner at the server, so even if you see them 250 ms late, you also have ~150 extra ms to take them out before they take you out (and get at least a kill trade). You still get the same advantage if you are the one peeking, making the situation even worse for the HPB.

The only advantage they can have is that they are better adjusted to it, but that’s not a “real” advantage and you can easily compensate for it with experience. It still sucks, but the alternative of ever having to lead your shots is unthinkable in this day and age. You would get far more complains about shoddy hit registration than you will about the current issues.

(Violator) #36

Dying to a HPB when from your point of view as a LPB you made it round a corner due to ping difference is a big advantage to the HPB, albeit not one that actually affects them (from their point of view the target didn’t make it round the corner). The LPB thinks they are safe but 150ms later (from your example above) the shot registers and they are dead. 150ms might not sound like a lot but it really affects dodging and getting to cover quickly to reload etc. You are correct in that the LPB has the advantage in the reverse case, which I feel is as it should be.

My argument is that the LPB should always have the advantage. If a hitscan is done from BOTH players point of view (or at least from the lowest ping player’s) then these type of ‘corner kills’ will be avoided, albeit at the expense of the HPB who will feel that their shot has hit - perhaps showing death ghosts from both player perspectives would be a good idea though this would break ‘immersion’ somewhat. For the LPB, as you stated above, their ping is lower so their shots will and should always register first. There would need to be some ping tolerance (say 50ms, depending on movement speed, average reaction times, local ping variance etc.). There already is some kind of tolerance in place hence the simultaneous kills of you and your opponent which sometimes happen - these should never happen if a corner is involved ;).

At the end of the day though you won’t be able to please LPBs and HPBs playing on the same server. Hopefully with more servers and a bigger player base then HPBs will have more local servers to play on than having to play in far off lands. Leading targets is bad but imho dying around corners is worse :).

(Anti) #37

[QUOTE=Zenity;525277]They absolutely do not have the advantage, unless they abuse by triggering lag but that’s a whole different story.

Every negative thing that can happen to you against an HPB, happens to them ALL the time, because the ping roundtrip from them to you is the same as from you to them. E.g. if you peek a corner as an LPB, they will not see you for an equal amount that you would not see them if they were the ones peeking.

HPB moves around a corner:

  • They see you instantly at your old position.
  • 200 ms for that move to arrive at the sever.
  • 50 ms for that move to arrive at you.

You (LPB) move around a corner:

  • You see them instantly at their old position.
  • 50 ms for your move to arrive at the server.
  • 200 ms for that move to arrive at the HPB.

An advantage the LPB always has is that their actions arrive sooner at the server, so even if you see them 250 ms late, you also have ~150 extra ms to take them out before they take you out (and get at least a kill trade). You still get the same advantage if you are the one peeking, making the situation even worse for the HPB.

The only advantage they can have is that they are better adjusted to it, but that’s not a “real” advantage and you can easily compensate for it with experience. It still sucks, but the alternative of ever having to lead your shots is unthinkable in this day and age. You would get far more complains about shoddy hit registration than you will about the current issues.[/QUOTE]

This! The HPB doesn’t get any sort of advantage here, the LPB is better off, as they should be.

(tangoliber) #38

Up until this point, I have been avoiding out-of-region servers as much as possible. When I saw it connecting me to an EU server, I cancelled. However, over the weekend, I started letting it connect me to those servers, and I must say the gameplay still feels surprisingly smooth. This is very encouraging, as I worry a bit less about the game not having a large community.