Initial Gut Feedback

(tokamak) #61

I’m really glad it wasn’t just me

(Humate) #62

Again I think people are thinking the movement is slow or restrictive due to the fov, are there many of us here that would normally play as low as 90 fov in ET or ETQW?

I played etqw at default fov of 90. :slight_smile:

(light_sh4v0r) #63

Yes, the delay when you start sprinting is weird, it feels like it takes time for the game to respond which is never good imo.

(rookie1) #64

My overall wish is that the game stay Clean and simple and precise of what they means (icons or stuff like that) …making too much stuff (commands or in visual players side stuffs) would scare ppl Imo
for the graphic details side the more i have the more i like :slight_smile:

(Humate) #65

It may be that i was on a 320 ping, but I couldnt tell where I was being shot from.
Sometimes the player was invisible. Sometimes I was getting shot through walls.

Also Im 99% sure, but everyone has the same footstep sounds?
If it is indeed the case maybe toning down the sound, and giving the enemy its own sound might be better? I love how it works in ETQW.

(tokamak) #66

It’s not just sprinting. Normal running has that slow start as well. I guess it’s realistic and everything but it feels annoying.

I’m trying to think up a few points now but a lot of is map specific so I’m collecting screenshots. All in all my game experience has been 10x better than last Wednesday so I’m mostly just impressed.

(INF3RN0) #67

In general all maps have a grey haze on everything. Almost like a lack of contrast, but it may just be something to do with my gfx settings or something. I’m currently looking into it as other people’s screenshots looked much more clear.

UPDATE: I just maxed out the contrast on my gfx card and it definitely made a huge difference. Without doing that objects simply blend together and colors look dull and greyed out. Not sure if anyone else is having the same thing.

UPDATE 2: Looks like disabling Depth of Field has a drastic effect on the color saturation… not sure why that is.

(shirosae) #68

I played ETQW at fov90 for ages (on a 4:3 CRT), though I eventually moved to 105. I haven’t played any FPS for a couple of years, though, so I don’t think it’s just that.

Really, I’m basing it on how easy it is to get kills if I shoot first. There have been loads of time when people I was firing at noticed and reacted quickly enough (imo) that they should have been able to fight back, but were killed too quickly for it.

(.FROST.) #69

Just had my 3rd session of DB and found out about the “CTRL+Fx” for alternate weapon loadouts for each class. Wich would make a total of 16 firearms(assuming that no weapon appears twice). And that would allready be enough for me, considering that you can modify your weapons, at least like in Brink.

Things wich make a good game for me; in this case a MP-FPS game:

-a cohesive and distinctive artstyle
(I don’t only like to play games, I like to look at them as well. I’d never, ever rush through a game. For me It’s absolutely not understandable, how some guys can rush through a game without really enjoying its visuals. That’s more a singleplayer thing, but a cohesive-artstyle,immersive gameplay and good looks are also absolutely mandatory for me in mp-fps games. There’s no way I’d even think of touching something like CS 1.6. Sorry fps purists, but that game is so ugly, not even it’s moma could love it anymore)

-a variety of maps(the more the better)
-well designed weapons(I prefer designed weapons over the 10.000 iteration of a M4), like in Brink, or Deus Ex:HR.
-at least 3-4 game modes, but not too much either
-well and last but not least a smooth and responsive movement system*

*Wich is for now my only real complaint about DB. I can see me playing this game as long as I did Brink, but not with this movement system. I understand(at least I think so) the reason behind this inertia simulating movement system. It’s like the bobbing head or motion blur thing. It adds a certain layer of realism and virtual weight to the game. But even if it looks cool and all, I have to switch off head-bobbing and motion blur in every game, otherwise I’d have no fun playing it. Even afterwards I’d feel dizzy for quite some time.
Today I felt a bit more accustomed to DB’s movement-sys than yesterday, but it still effes up my concentration. I don’t want to exaggerate this topic, but it’s impossible for me to even concentrate on the objective. Sounds stupid, but it’s true. Maybe a couple more days will help me to get more accustomed to all that, but I don’t know.

This was the last time I’ve spammed this forum with my movement system issue; I promise. Overall, I’m happy that SD is back and I’ll alpha, beta and gamma test DB as long as my stomach can handle it :wink:

PS: I know that DB will most likely be F2P, but I’m really hoping for a box. I’m ol’ skool, what can I say.

(Rex) #70

I played yesterday the whole day long, as well as today. So as a huge ETQW fan here is my honest opinion:

[ul]
[li] The fast and easy minimizing is a great thing. No brightness issues on my desktop. Was a bit sh!tty in ET and QW.
[/li][li] The female models are really well done!
[/li][/ul]

I’m a bit surprised to be the first one to say this and I also wonder about some opinions of QW promod players here, but I can’t really feel the old spirit of your former games. It feels more like Brink than ET or ETQW.
On the first look this game looks like a mix of Brink and RAD Soldiers. The problem is not the look neither the engine, but the different gameplay.

I try to explain why by comparing it:

  • [li]What made ET games special wasn’t just the need of fast reactions, but also the ability to track enemies. It’s not like in other games where it doesn’t matter if you hit body or feet, your opponent dies anyway after one shot. Your crossair had to be a while on your opponents model.
    [/li]Right now a few shots are enough to kill anyone and that even too fast.
    The aim reminds me of Counter Strike. I even adopted to the rules of CS aiming and since I did this I’m doing well. Though this has nothing to do with ET/QW.
    [li] I’m not sure how to describe this properly, but for me it seems too easy to get kills. There isn’t really much you can do if you got hit first. At the moment you die most of the time, if you don’t pull the trigger faster than your opponent. There should still be the possibility that you compensate “shooting later” by aim.
    [/li]
    [li] The movement feels a bit like Brink without smart. In QW it was all about jumping or better said strafe jumping. Also crouching doesn’t give such a great advantage. I miss the freedom you had with your movement. The duck jump (you crouch while you are in the air) doesn’t seem to be there at all. Prone isn’t even in the game.
    [/li]Also the maps don’t seem like they support advanced movement.
    By “advanced movement” I mean for example, if you get chased by a bunch of people you could crouch or prone jump out of a narrow window to escape fast and leave your chaser behind if he wasn’t able to do the same jump.
    Neither there are any trickjumps. Difficult to do, but allowing you to reach better positions or to be faster or even to do a trickplant!
    In ET/QW everyone had an unique movement style in combat. Strafing really fast infight, crouching like crazy, duckjump or just jumping randomly.
    You are faster with your primary weapon than with your knife?
    Something what’s also strange, is that I for myself feel really slow, although all opponents move really fast. It just doesn’t seem right. Don’t know what it really is, but you notice it best when you are playing sniper. It’s very very difficult to hit a moving player.

    [li]Have you already asked yourself what dinstinguishes a pro player from a noob?
    [/li]Apart from experience, map awareness, tactic and knowledge of opponent behaviour it is all about aim + movement (+ right decisions at the right time).
    Get me right, there should be a gap between people who got a very good aim and those who got just a good aim. Furthermore also the movement plays a big role. If you take away the shooting, you should still be able to see the difference between a pro player and a noob only by his movement. The right movement should be something you have to learn and can be improved by training.
    Those two things aren’t given at the moment.

    [li]Maps don’t offer much opportunities for your advantage. It’s not like “Hey, I found a new box I can hide behind or stay on when they run in” or “I must stand on this railing to gain an advantage with my sniper rifle” or “I must jump down here first, that I don’t lose any health”.
    [/li]Sometimes there is even only one way to get to a certain point! In ET you always had at least 2-3 ways.
    I also don’t have the feeling there is much to explore on those maps.
    Even 5 years after the release of QW I still figured out new things.
    To explore new things on the map is an important factor to keep the motivation up. For me no upgrades nor perks neither ranks are motivating, but only if I found a new trick, approach to a situation or a spot in the game.

    [li] Is timing your respawn still important? I don’t have a timer to see my respawn time. This is what made SD games so unique. You got the factor “time” in the game. Hence you also need to time every action you do that’s why spawntimes are important.
    [/li]
    [li] You can’t plant the C4 randomly on the map which would be an additional fun factor.
    [/li]
    [li] You run out of ammo very fast. There should be somekind of “ammo/health depot” somewhere on the map or the mag size should be bigger. Weapons shoot so fast, sometimes even I waste 1 or 2 shots by accident in different situations.
    [/li]
    [li]I think mines were designed to stop the EV from moving. If we can also kill players with them, why can’t we plant them on walls ceilings?
    [/li]
    I never took part in a pre-alpha before to know what can be changed at this state, but I really hope you change a lot to suit the old gameplay.

    Please Splash Damage, if you make decisions always keep things that made ET/ETQW so awesome and outstanding in your mind.
(Humate) #71

Gunplay (and movement speed) - if you have issues with combat and movement be sure to post in this thread as well

(stealth6) #72

I agree with everything Rex said.

(Humate) #73

[QUOTE=shirosae;409437]

Really, I’m basing it on how easy it is to get kills if I shoot first. There have been loads of time when people I was firing at noticed and reacted quickly enough (imo) that they should have been able to fight back, but were killed too quickly for it.[/QUOTE]

To add to that, thats pretty much how it plays out when both players are of equal health as well.

(murka) #74

Firefights indeed feel a tad short and based on who spots who first.

A few reasons why this might occur:[ul]
[li]Movement is not very responsive. After pressing a directional key, it takes some time before the player will move at fulls speed. Thus evading fire is much harder.
[/li]
[li]Weapons deal too much damage. Weapons should never be one-hit-kills, unless they require lots of skill to be effective. ETQW sniper rifle was really on the border with it, but as headshots weren’t so easy to pull on a moving target i guess it was justified. The same can’t be said for DB-s shotgun which would only require aiming for the center mass. Even the throwing knives, while impossible to hit a moving target, shouldn’t be one-hit-kills as they can be abused where the enemy can’t evade being hit or isn’t likely to such as tight corridors. More knives with less damage could make this much more balanced.
[/li]
[li]Headshot is too easy. Just a glance at the obit list reveals that a huge amount of kills ended with a headshot. I’m not quite certain yet if the hitbox is too large or we aren’t used to a different anti-lag system.[/ul]
[/li]
A suggestion based on this: As we are mostly new to this engine, it could speed up our adaption process by giving some test assault rifle with nearly 0 spread. Also more distinguishable hitsounds so we can judge the hits better. After we are comfortable with the movement, we can move on to balancing weapon damage.

(SockDog) #75

Any time you want to NOT keep shooting me in the head is just fine with me. :slight_smile:

(H0RSE) #76

[QUOTE=Ashog;409063]
Regarding the prone - I personally don’t miss it as Brink didn’t have it, but what this game cries for is sliding… it really does. Is this possible?[/QUOTE]
I agree. I don’t miss prone, and frankly, I don’t really see it fitting in with the gameplay. This game seems to be going for a more fast paced, visceral gameplay. If the game was going for a more ‘realistic’ or simulation feel, perhaps prone would fit in, but as it currently is, imo, prone simply doesn’t fit in to the equation, and can be abused as well.

As for FOV - I would like to see it increased. I am used to playing with 110. Of course, having it capped at 90 could be for game balance

I also agree that it seemed a bit too fast to kill players. I also think that the aiming should be tighter, and personally (I know this will likely not happen) I would remove the option for ironsights, and go back to how it was in RTCW and W:ET.

(INF3RN0) #77

Still advocating for an overall lower RoF on all guns as a solution to burning through ammo, drawing out fire fights, making it less reaction based, increasing aim tracking requirements, and making headshots all the more important. I still notice plenty of aim skill difference in the state the game is in and don’t really feel like it’s nearly as bad as CoD. I personally aim the same as in ETQW and don’t really tap fire or ironsight unless theres a target at a very long distance. I think that the only way someone who is aiming worse than you can actually kill you is with body shots, but again that is just because the guns shoot so fast. Additionally shotgun needs to be 2hit kill, not 1.

Movement could be a tad faster, but if anything the maps could use more ‘jump routes’ in general. For example there are tons of places where you can almost jump from a car to a box to a bridge that doesn’t really break the design. I think I will eventually make a compilation of all the spots that could easily be adjusted to allow alternative player travel routes. Also some maps need more spawn exits because they are much too easy to camp.

At the moment I think that the best classes are engineer and medic. Field Ops is almost a requirement for some objectives and everyone is always hungry for ammo boxes when your spawn camping. Operative is more of a personal preference, but serves its purpose well. Assault needs some work I feel… mostly because I don’t find the guns to be that much better than any of the other classes. The only difference seems to be the big basket of grenades, which don’t seem to be very effective so far. I really wish the assualt would play as the best killing class by being the fastest and having the most accurate guns. Maybe the solution would be two opposite loadouts for assault- one being the big heavy weapon/nade tank and the other being what I mentioned.

(Humate) #78

Received dmg from previous duels carries too much weight in the next duel, when playing as a non-medic class. Its a freebie kill that overlooks skill. To counter this, either your medics pack you up constantly every single time you take dmg. Or you play medic and pack yourself up. Of the two solutions the latter is most likely in pub play. :wink:

Basically combat needs to ramp up skillwise, or players will eventually opt to play rambo medic over the other classes.

(tokamak) #79

W:ET was still even more fast-paced and had numerous occasions where prone was appropriate.

(dazman76) #80

Agree with the prone comments - I don’t really miss it in a game like DB. I wouldn’t care if it WAS there, but I probably wouldn’t use it as the pace feels a little quick for it, IMO. It’s nice for games like RO2 where distance and caution are prominent, but it would probably only be an easier way to get killed in SD games :slight_smile: Crouch does the job here I think.

I also did feel like I was getting through ammo quickly, but the guns are fun to shoot so maybe I was getting carried away a bit :slight_smile: I find myself hip-shooting a fair bit at distance, and love the level of accuracy there when playing the Soldier. Not too high, not too random - I felt that my resulting accuracy was pretty much where it should be, although I appreciate that those with better skills might feel it’s a bit too accurate :slight_smile: I found the iron-sights to be quite satisfying when I did use them, though I need to reverse my choice to use toggle there - that did feel a bit clumsy, but that’s probably just me rather than any fault of the game :slight_smile:

Only had a handful of games so far, but I enjoy it. My FPS time has been limited to RO2 for quite a while now, and I haven’t actually played much of that recently. I’m a bit rusty(-er), but DB is still satisfying to play. I need to get some time with each class really, as I mostly played Soldier so far - I’m also lost on the maps, and although the icons help greatly, my map/icon-watching often teases me into Anti-shotgun-in-face situations :slight_smile: Hopefully I’ll learn the maps soon and I can ease this slightly :slight_smile: lol

Nice work so far guys :slight_smile: I haven’t visited the forums enough in recent months, and for some reason when I got the invite I was expecting something other than a “new SD game™”, if you know what I mean. Don’t ask me why I thought that, but when I saw it was actually a full-blown “SD game”, I was pretty pleased to say the least :slight_smile: Good stuff!

Disclaimer: These are the ramblings of a semi-skilled FPS player, and therefore may be utter tosh in reality :slight_smile: lol