Idea's for Next Patch (Mostly Balence But a Few Others)

(RasteRayzeR) #21

[QUOTE=krokodealer;488350]Medics are useless with the objects - tooo slow. So why they even able?
SOldiers are much stronger than, say, engies - so why bother taking engie? because he will disarm fast? lol he will die even faster.

Lets face it already: classless objectives dont do any good for this game.[/QUOTE]

You can pawn a soldier with Proxi if you know how to handle her and combine her perks, engies can be efficient for objective defense, medics are fire support and revives, etc.

The whole classless thing is making sure you stick with your role, but that you won’t lose it all just because you don’t have the right merc, and this is the most important. The classlessness is there only because we cannot change our mercs during a game (only 3 choices), which enforces team play. Medics do revives and don’t go full rambo anymore because it seems to work.

So if you remove the classless, you need to allow anyone to chose whatever merc they want at any point during an ongoing game. And that in pub, this is total mess imo.

(Raviolay) #22

[QUOTE=Smooth;488352]We’ll be added proficiencies to all objectives types, with some characters being great at objectives and the rest being able to do it but at a much slower rate.

Yes everyone can plant C4 right now, down the line this will remain true but those characters that aren’t good at objectives will have a much, much longer arming time.

The other change we’re thinking about making is removing objective stacking, so only the rate from ‘fastest/best’ character currently interacting is used. This means that three Fraggers performing the objective at the same time wont be able to make up for not having a Proxy (for example).

To address another point, we’ll also be adding proper 1.5s revive shields soon now that we have the UI to show what’s happening.

And finally, we know Fragger, Thunder and Arty are all too powerful right now, they will be slowly toned down until we’re happy with where they sit. At the same time we’re also slowly bringing up the weaker characters to an acceptable level too. We’re at the stage where small tweaks are making a big change.[/QUOTE]

Those changes sound loverly, however they beg the question why bother with agnostic? I have played agnostic and am getting the feeling this guy has in this song.

//youtu.be/7nJzF6qqUQM

(spookify) #23

[QUOTE=Smooth;488352]We’ll be added proficiencies to all objectives types, with some characters being great at objectives and the rest being able to do it but at a much slower rate.

Yes everyone can plant C4 right now, down the line this will remain true but those characters that aren’t good at objectives will have a much, much longer arming time.

The other change we’re thinking about making is removing objective stacking, so only the rate from ‘fastest/best’ character currently interacting is used. This means that three Fraggers performing the objective at the same time wont be able to make up for not having a Proxy (for example).

To address another point, we’ll also be adding proper 1.5s revive shields soon now that we have the UI to show what’s happening.

And finally, we know Fragger, Thunder and Arty are all too powerful right now, they will be slowly toned down until we’re happy with where they sit. At the same time we’re also slowly bringing up the weaker characters to an acceptable level too. We’re at the stage where small tweaks are making a big change.[/QUOTE]

Sounds Promising :slight_smile:

Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like this game will start heading toward an ability based game rather then a pro shooter?.?! Sort of a spamtastic mix of ET and COD… With only small tweaks to come and hip fire spread staying at the high level it’s leaning toward primary shooting to be done with Iron-sights and Add-On?

I know you dont want to spill all the beans but if you know the direction you are heading we can give better feedback.

IMPORTANT: If I could just ask for 1 thing in a patch soon then later. “IF” we are getting Iron-Sight Add’Ons could those come sooner rather then later so we can get used to always bringing up the iron-sight. Having a Red Dot or 3.4x I think will shut me up, give an even more confirmation on how the final game will shot and allow us to give very accurate feedback on TTK, Spread, Recoil and may other things that we are currently complaining about. Help me help you.

(Smooth) #24

We’ve always stated we want hip-fire and iron-sights to be on relative equal footing so players have a choice to make rather than us dictating it and removing variety.

Beyond 15-20m ironsights should become preferable because at closer range hip-fire is much better due to the movement benefits.

PS. We definitely will be having customizable sight attachments before release.

(Humate) #25

If an equally skilled solo Fragger comes up against an equally skilled solo Sawbonez, then it’s intended that Fragger wins that fight the vast majority of the time.

Nothing wrong with that imo.

No to this because it only helps Medics be better soldiers, not better Medics:

No, it helps medics become better medics, if they opt to fullfill their role.
If they dont, it helps them become better soldiers. Theres a difference. :slight_smile:

(spookify) #26

[QUOTE=Smooth;488360]We’ve always stated we want hip-fire and iron-sights to be on relative equal footing so players have a choice to make rather than us dictating it and removing variety.

Beyond 15-20m ironsights should become preferable because at closer range hip-fire is much better due to the movement benefits.

PS. We definitely will be having customizable sight attachments before release.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again for reconfirming this. All of us remember this being said and I personally like that it is still going this way.

I also remember it being said that it is a careful balance between the hip fire and iron-sights and spread and Recoil need to be tweaked as such to not offset each other so to speak.

I just want my bullets to go where I aim a little more so then they are now :slight_smile:

(Erkin31) #27

I still think that is the best solution for everybody (Players and Splash Damage) : http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/37219-Classless-objectives-Role-system

(INF3RN0) #28

[QUOTE=Smooth;488342]If an equally skilled solo Fragger comes up against an equally skilled solo Sawbonez, then it’s intended that Fragger wins that fight the vast majority of the time.

[/QUOTE]

This is acceptable, however in the case of Fragger especially, the reward is much too accessible to a lower skilled player. If any merc is “very easy” to use, then the output of success would have to be limited. Though at that point the merc becomes “worthless” to higher skilled player. At the same time you don’t want to have the shotgun approach where you keep tweaking damage until it leads to a statistical 50/50. Skilled performance requirements should be the determining variable at all times.

I really think a potential solution worth exploring would be to try and implement two definitive play styles per most mercs perhaps. Something like alternative firing modes maybe- the easier method being limited by design, but the more skilled/rewarding being available to those at a higher level of play. In LoL for example there is a definitive curve of ease of use, however the style of play varies a lot between the lower and higher skill bracket. It makes for accessible play at a lower level, but does not allow that to carry over to higher levels. In a similar fashion I’d say the CS system accomplishes a similar outcome, but not nearly as dependable. In the lower tier of CS people are spraying and ignoring movement, while at higher levels the mechanics change completely. Overall the goal should be to eliminate all cases of the “fragger syndrom” where a lower level player would play it simply because they could kill more effectively. The advantages per merc should be there, but they shouldn’t be so extreme that they null the skill gap by not truly having one.

(Glottis-3D) #29

i hope toning down doesnt mean spread increase D:

(Humate) #30

This is acceptable, however in the case of Fragger especially, the reward is much too accessible to a lower skilled player. If any merc is “very easy” to use, then the output of success would have to be limited. Though at that point the merc becomes “worthless” to higher skilled player. At the same time you don’t want to have the shotgun approach where you keep tweaking damage until it leads to a statistical 50/50. Skilled performance requirements should be the determining variable at all times.

Yes I think average joe’s killing impact, spikes too high on a simple character switch.
Its fine for a character class to be better equipped with dealing with threats, provided there are weapon nuances or a curve to master.

(spookify) #31

When is the next Key release?

Do a Key and small Balance Patch.

I think the next patch will be epic! I really really do!

(tokamak) #32

Which is valid if it were team deathmatch. Where the only thing that matters is kills. In XT, killing is still only a means to an end. One of the multiple ways you can contribute.

There need to be several ways players can outsmart Fragger. Not even lethal but just figure out ways to render his value of ‘killing’ less important.

(spookify) #33

O yeah I totally forgot to put:

  • Fix Stop Watch Timer!!!

We need more fluid game play!

(ailmanki) #34

[QUOTE=Smooth;488342]If an equally skilled solo Fragger comes up against an equally skilled solo Sawbonez, then it’s intended that Fragger wins that fight the vast majority of the time.

Mercs aren’t balanced on head-to-head combat with each other, they’re balanced on what they bring to the team and how they help the team win.[/QUOTE]

I guess I am done with this game now.
Fragger the new Rambo …
It would be very funny if it would’nt be so sad, I really had high hopes for Dirtybomb.

I am surprised everyone here just accepts that! Oh Fragger is better then Sawbonez - obviously why did I even find that strange - it was all planned.

Now lets just wait for the first Merc for $ which is even better?

Something stinks!

(Nail) #35

"Something stinks! "

hmmm, attitude I’d guess
it’s a beta, lets see where it goes in the next year

Feck, I find it intriguing

(INF3RN0) #36

I’m hoping to see new mechanics for Fragger, more headshot dependency on Thunder maybe (or just generally more difficult soldier skill curves), and I can only hope for completely unconventional shotguns. After that the current mercs would be in decent shape. Heck, even the gun game is fairly good in general. A really good obj map layout would at least make it an enjoyable arcade fragging sim until the meta really improved. It makes sense why I like TDM and execution so much better atm.

(Glottis-3D) #37
  1. How about more Weapon combo’s ?
    Lets say we have a char that holds his heavy Prim weapon (a low ROF/medium dmg weapon) in right hand, and his secondary weapon (a little bit faster ROF, but low damage) in the left hand, helping to hold his heavy PRIM. So he can switch from PRIM to SEC weapon faster than usual load time of his PRIM.

well, like a sniper, but not a sniper. =))))

  1. How about quake1-like Boomstick?
    Low damage, low spread (does dmg even in long range) mediocre Rof
(Hundopercent) #38

[QUOTE=Smooth;488342]If an equally skilled solo Fragger comes up against an equally skilled solo Sawbonez, then it’s intended that Fragger wins that fight the vast majority of the time.

Mercs aren’t balanced on head-to-head combat with each other, they’re balanced on what they bring to the team and how they help the team win.[/QUOTE]

With that being said, the spawn times are so short, and the objectives are so blah what is the point of playing anything but a soldier?

(BomBaKlaK) #39

Nothing !
Boring Obj, small maps, and short respawn time … so let’s play soldier and frag !
But still boring anyway …

OBJ_Bridge-PC-19-22.20.110.jpg1920×1080 272 KB

(spookify) #40

[QUOTE=Smooth;488360]We’ve always stated we want hip-fire and iron-sights to be on relative equal footing so players have a choice to make rather than us dictating it and removing variety.

Beyond 15-20m ironsights should become preferable because at closer range hip-fire is much better due to the movement benefits.

PS. We definitely will be having customizable sight attachments before release.[/QUOTE]

Everyone basically knows Arty is going to get nerfed this next patch which in some ways I agree with but could you please take this into consideration so he isnt completely unplayable:

  • Decrease assault rifle damage to 25 (from 30) (Maybe Even 20-23ish Would need to Test basically 3HS instead of 2…)
    Note: By reducing the damage you will need to reduce the spread recovery time so it doesn’t completely kill Arty…

  • Decrease Bullet Spread recovery time slightly. (Just Slightly because of the reduced Damage and extra shots needed)

  • Recoil is Fine (A single shot weapon like this shouldnt have too much)
    Note: However maybe instead of the crazy spread penalty you make the recoil penalty greater for consecutive shots…

  • When calling Arty a Dot will appear in the middle of the designated airstrike air and a ground ORA (Like Phoenix has) will appear on the ground showing the effective blast area or kill zone.

  • Add’On’s First Class to Test Red Dot and 3.4x Add’On Iron-Sights. I think this would be the most important class to first test this on.